GM's excess baggage - Buick, Pontiac, Saab, Hummer

[snip]

Ah, now you have hit on something, but not what you think. In my opinion, US auto makers do a miserable job of promoting ALL their models. Ford is starting to do a better job with their mid-sized Fusion model, but every other US promo I see is advertising "low lease rates" or "low financing" with annoying music in the background, telling nothing about the car. A while back, Ford was advertising "A Focus and a Dell (computer)" where they gave away a "free" computer with the purchase of a Focus - targeted to college students.

Detroit doesn't advertise SUV's any better than their smaller models, or any differently than the foreign brands. In fact, you may have it backwards. Mercedes advertises their M series, Porsche their Cayenne, but I don't recall any E series or Boxster commercials. The same goes for Kia, Honda, Hyundai, etc.

I've been to many places in US, people are very friendly, I must say. It's a great country with lots of space, hence large cars as people like to drive around vast distances. I even saw a large mobile home car with a smaller car in tow, presumably for the odd shopping trips. People seem fairly laid back, because they mostly can afford to as petrol (gas) is cheap. They eat huge meals, and it sometimes shows... The Gran Canyon is a phenomenal breathtaking sight, it confirmed the old theory that the earth is flat end ends somewhere :-) They have now build a glass ramp where you can walk right out in the canyon, should be quite spectacular and a bit scary. Naturally, EU and the countries want to set their mark as the origin of philosophy and science. Nobody should take patent on being the best in the world, as it will only be short lived.

Eeyore proclaimed:

Unlike the European brands that are bringing us such fuel efficient vehicles as the V12 Mercedes, the Turbo Cayenne, the V10 Audi, etc. Of course you could always blame it on the poor neighbors to the south, where such "American" evils as the new Hemi are built.

You won't see many of the above on European roads. Even a 2 litre engine is bigger than average here.

Graham

Walt Kienzle proclaimed:

I'd say you are giving them too much credit. Chrysler came out with the

300 series, but on their negative side is pretty much everything else they make except Jeep which they are also doing their best to emasculate and abolish. Ford just sold Aston Martin and is trying to trash Jaguar. The Ford 500 isn't really a bad car, as is the Mercury version, but neither one of them exactly pulls folks away from the lines for the Chrysler 300 [which is a disguised Mercedes chassis with an American engine]. Ford hasn't built a real showcase Lincoln since the Mark VII even through they have all of the Jaguar talent able to help them create a whole series of world class cruisers, say with an aluminum chassis for the series for better mileage. Other than the Corvette and the one Cadillac built of it, all of the interesting GM cars are warmed over Australian models...even though GM also has all sorts of talent available from European touring divisions. All three have the talent it would take to make a series of interesting, reliable, safe, and even economical cars, but not one of them has the guts to do so.

Agreed... but underneath, you need a vehicle not built by a bean counter or someone that never has to drive the result.

Eeyore proclaimed:

I see them, but you are correct. Then who needs a 7 liter monster when a 2 liter will silently move your vehicle at over 200 Km/hour with reasonable gas or diesel mileage. Plus it might go around the first corner...and stop. Not that some so called luxury brands are that good at safety, when a big Lexus sedan takes longer to stop than a Range Rover.

People tend to forget the imports were "born" in countries were gas always costed a lot so they tned to be masters of the art of high MPG while Detriot has long been the master on gas guzzlers and does not want to change its ways. Some US model "promise" good MPG but you you own them you find that some manufacture EPA ratings are more fiction than fact. Take Dodge, in 2008 they are yet again going to try to market the hemi SUV as fuel efficent vehicle in the mask of a hybrid using some GM technology. Rather than reinventing the vehical and concept they keep trying to keep the old one alive.

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

I was surprised at the number of Porsche Cayenne and 200 series Mercedes on the Autostrade a few weeks ago. Fair number of A6 Audis also. Yes, the percentage of less than 2 litre machines is greater, but some mid to large cars do exist.

Sure they exist but many of those Audis will only have 2 litre engines. Even Merc does a 1.9 litre. At the other end of the scale there are a number of cars with engines smaller even than 1 litre.

Graham

The most popular in the C class is a 2.5 litre. (2496 CC to be exact)

Audi does have a 2.0, a 2.4 and a 3.2.

The percentage of larger cars seems to have grown though, and the smaller ones seem to be losing ground in some areas where there is some room. The Smart, for instance, is doing well in the big cities. Scooters are still highly popular too, I might add.

Eeyore wrote - suitably gloomily!:

Hear Hear! Saab had a small, (too small for commercial success in the modern world). idiosyncratic and occasionally fanatical customer base who appreciated what the manufacturer did at a design and engineering level, even if the quality control side of the production equation sometimes caused wallet ache! :) So for years we got cars with floor mounted keys to save kneecaops, funny screens for great peripheral vision and forward safety planning throughout the design, as well as comfort, handling, mostly good ergonomics, reasonable economy and shedloads of space.

Move on to the 94 NG and we not only got a column key, but it started a car with inferior torsional stiffness and crash figures to both the 9000 and the by then almost antique 900. Cue the V6 with some expensive maintenance habits (brakes, steering and cambelts) and Subaru sales started to go through the roof. So GM took them on board too....! (And yes, I do concede that the recent Saabs are a great improvement.)

Maybe GM need to take a leaf from Renault's book? They keep a *very* close financial eye on Nissan since they bailed them out, but they also trust them to have a better knowledge of their traditional customers than anyone else. No, I'll never buy Nissan's version of the Megane, but lots of people will althugh they *wouldn't* buy Renault's styling or suspension package just 'cos it had a Nissan badge stuck on.

What I won't buy is a Chevrolaab or a Saabaru. so for now I'll keep updating Outbacks and enjoy our nighttime coast and mountain drives in an

81 turbo sedan that's just nice to drive. Cheers

The government must stop the American people from buying the vehicles they want and need. The government must force them to buy small cars so we can save the world for our grand children.

mike

Look again, particularly at the Lucerne.

Willy

I don't agree. Although I own two new Chevy's (Impala and Equinox)... I previously owned 13 Nissan's..... so it's not like I'm doing the rahrah American Car sthick. But in looking at the Chevy's line up, you'd be HARD PRESSED to find any brand that offers better gas mileage in a similarly sized vehicle. Even the huge Tahoe now delivers amazing mileage - better than anything else in it's size or class.

Willy

You are bazzare. We have do not have unlimited resources (though some like to think they are) and detriot sarted the whole SUV thing to get around the MPG and crash standards for many years. I would venture to say that over 90% of the people with 4x4 drive "think" they need it because that is what detriot pushes, not because they need it. Had Detriot no exploited the SUV MPG loop hole for profit, there would be no SUV craze. You make money by making a product and convincing people they need it even if they do not. If you want your children and grand child to have anything in future things need to change now or by the

22nd century they will be looking for another planet to live on. Anceint Dinosuars roamed the earth for 100 million years plus but but mordern one call man is going to destroy climate and planet in the span a of few thousand years with most the damage in the last 50 or so years.

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

Geezus - do you see black Chevrolet helicopters hovering around your house? Detroit started all of this for their own purpose, and not to respond to their customers? Then who the hell would ever have bought them? And what about all of those vehicles being produced by every import manufacturer? They're producing SUV's to satisfy something other than their customer's demands? Those vehicles are selling for some other reason than consumer demand? Man - you've got to get a grip.

Bull. You don't understand much about market dynamics, do you?

Save the planet then - quit breathing. You'll emit less CO2. Global warming is caused by people like you blowing hot air in groups like this.

Around 10% of all man-made CO2 is from human respiration.

Graham

I did look, particularly at the Lucerne. The only model that has the Stability Control is the CXS and starts at $35440. That is $10,100 more than the sticker price of my Sonata Limited. As for GPS, you need the OnStar that costs $200 a year for the base program plus $100 for navigation. For the cost of one year, I can get a Garmin or Tom Tom that fits into any car I own. Over a five year period, I'd spend $11,600 more to get the same features in the Lucerne.

My LeSabre has OnStar. After the free year ran out, I never re-newed and never missed it.

I was pretty serious about buying a Lucerne, but the Sonata is just a much better value, IMO. After 8 months and 15,000 miles, I'm still liking the Sonata as much as the day I bought it. Performance and handling are outstanding. It has not needed any warranty service either, only oil changes so far.

Not anymore. You're way behind the times. Traditional U.S. handling has simply gone out of style. I admit American cars are just a pile of cheap imported junk, but your description wasn't really very good. You may be right about the last bastion-ing. There's only one U.S.-made car with a live rear axle. Can you name it? I wonder if it's the last one in the world. Might well be.

And as for the G8, I'll take all the Australian cars they will send us. They have big rear drive cars in Australia, and people here want them. At least I do.