Most UNreliable luxury cars

in article UtOdnZMrye snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com, Tex at snipped-for-privacy@aspam101.org wrote on 10/08/2005 15:30:

I suppose that's the price you pay for style and flair :)

I've owned all kinds of cars and must say, our "British" cars (MG & Austin) were the worst! I found both our FIATs to have had no problems whatsoever, always fired up whatever the weather and always sailed the MOT. The SAABs (okay, they're older 18-22 year old cars) always fired up first time, whatever the weather, but have had some work done on them. Our Hyundai was awesome! Really ... It was ... But nicked once and broken into twice. Mind you, so was the Metro (more than once) ... Good ram-raid cars, I suppose :(

Well ... Spirito di Punto ... I like European cars! Scandinavian cars totally rule, though! I'm surprised to see the 9-3 in a list of unreliable cars.

Maybe...but does it have to eb that way? There are some slick Japanese cars which also are very reliable and of good overall quality.

I agree...euro cars are a lot of fun in their own way, but just wish they'd improve their quality. It's particularly unfortunate for the 9-3 in regards to this quality ranking however. It's a brilliant car but is assuredly marred by lots of little quality & reliability issues. Little things throughout the car are very much version 1.0. Worse yet, I don't see Saab addressing any of these issues with any concerted effort. It's going into it's 4th model year and from what I have seen most of the fundamental quality/reliability issues have not been dealt with adequately. There indeed seems to be a basic lack of direction/vision at Saab, which is probably now worse given Peter Augusstons departure last February.

- tex

I suspect the underlying problem is GM management rather than Saab engineering. GM has seriously trashed the Saab brand sadly.

Graham

Of course, it's hard to say not working there, but in all likely GM has shifted Saab's creative direction. I've seen it happen in other industries where the pressure from the sales/marketing department is to add more or more features as opposed to improving the existing ones.

- tex

Or fix them too ?

Microsoft ?

Graham

in article snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com, Tex at snipped-for-privacy@aspam101.org wrote on 11/08/2005 00:20:

I'm a little hard pushed to think of one, though ...

Absolutely! It feels like 10 years ago ... Again :( The basic SAAB is a *much* better car this time around, though.

Paul

1989 900 Turbo S

Yep...improving/fixing/refining. This had been a forte of Saab in the past. Unfortunately, it looks like they're going to change the basic Saab car platform again by 2008 (AWD/epsilon v2.0). Whether this is improvement/refinement only time will tell.

Heehehee! at least M$ is working steadily to improving its existing product lineup perhaps at the expense of leaving off some new features.

- tex

The Nissan Maxima, the Z and Infiniti G35 come to mind. Though the Maximas of late have lost a bit of their lustre.

Agreed...just wish they'd fix the little annoyances/quality issues in the car.

- tex

in article snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com, Tex at snipped-for-privacy@aspam101.org wrote on 11/08/2005 15:46:

Hmmm ... I'm of the opinion that they look like bad copies of Audi, Mercedes and Porsche; the Z, especially with a little FIAT thrown in just in case. Cheap looking. I kind of get what you're saying, but I really don't think they're at all "good looking". Reliable, yes ... Build quality, maybe.

Or leave it 10-15 years and when they're called "classics", those annoyances will cherished and explained with a slight tear in the eye to newcomers :)

Paul

1989 900 Turbo S

...and accept no advertisements.

Please feel free to expound on this. In particular, which methods are unusual?

Saab did well??? I suppose if you consider bottom quarter of manufacturers to be "doing well", then yes.

even from back in 2001...

As the article states it takes time for the old perceptions to fade.

Keep in mind however, the #2 Jaguar ranking only tells what's going on today, not what to expect in 3 years...that's where the VDS rankings come into play. Those tell a much different story, though it will be interesting to see if Jaguars 3 year VDS rankings increase commensurately, down the line.

JDPA manufacturer rankings

VDS Mfr Ranking: - Vehicle Dependability Survey (problems per 100 vehicles after 3 yrs of ownership)

2002: (Saab: 28 / Jaguar: 23 ...of 37 manufacturers) 2003: (Saab: 12 / Jaguar: 11 ...of 37) 2004: (Saab: 14 / Jaguar: 25 ...of 37) 2005: (Saab: 28 of / Jaguar 23 ...of 36) IQS Mfr Rankings: - Initial Quality Survey (problems per 100 vehicles w/in first 90 days of ownership) 2002: ??? (Saab: ? / Jaguar: ? ...of 37 manufacturers) 2003: ??? (Saab: ? / Jaguar: ? ...of 37) 2004: (Saab: 24 / Jaguar: 3 ...of 37) 2005: (Saab: 27 of / Jaguar 2 ...of 36) Sorry, I couldnt find the IQS for 2002 and 2003. If someone finds them, please post.

These figures do not bode well for Saab as it, _at best_, puts them only slightly above average amongst manufacturers. At worst, in the bottom tier.

- tex

Toyota's never seem to break, I had a carina auto with 300000 miles - dull as dishwater (it just wouln't die) but very well built cars. The Mr2 and celica are pretty fun to drive though...

I think the problem is people who shell out for saabs expect more - I have to say the interior plastics on the latest saabs aren't that brilliant.....

I think this point is debatable. The larger issues are related to all the annoying squeaks, creaks and rattles found in the car. It's plagued by them. It makes the car sound cheaply built (whereas it was more likely to be cheaply engineered). Plus there are a number of other annoying known issues: from randomly displayed incorrect seatbelt warning messages to a multitude of random SID errors to problematic struts.

- tex

No squeaks or rattles in either 9000 I've owned ! And they're not exactly new cars either ! It shows that a sqeak and rattle free car is perfectly possible.

Graham

Quite. Same with my 1993 9000 CSE. Totally solid, made to last.

Agreed...defl'y possible. I've driven some newer 9-5's which have been utterly silent as well.

I drove one 5 yo 9-3 convertible...wow, now that car was _loaded_ w/squeaks and creaks everywhere. Admittedly, convertibles will tend to be less sturdy over time.

- tex