New car - drawn to the Dark Side

It's a tough question. I have found the BMW 325xi to be quite fun to drive, plus of course it's great in the snow. And comfortable inside. But when comparing it to the Saab 9-3, I think the turbo wins out in the fun-to-drive department.

John

What's a "5 series"?

-- MH '72 97 '77 96 '78 95 '79 96 '87 900T8

Sorry - a BMW 5 series. It's quite similar in size and performance to a

9^5, but is RWD. In this case, I'd go for either a 523i SE (which has a 2.5l 6cyl in line engine), or a 528i SE (which has a 2.8l version of the same engine).

The comparison here is of a 5 series BMW and a 9-5 not the cars that you mention. This is significant because I belive there is more of a weight difference between a 9-3 and 325xi (BMW is AWD and heavier) than a 9-5 and 5 series. Even with the SAAB turbo I think the acceleration performance of these two cars is very close. If you got the 3.0l BMW six I think that would then get the nod, but it would likely be more money that a 9-5 then. Either way, we don't really buy these cars for drag racing...

The rear wheel drive means the BMW handles the twisties better, hands down, in dry conditions. The BMW is a marginally better highway (freeway) cruiser than the 9-5, if that is what you intend, with pretty similar fuel efficiencies. The only place that a 9-5 *may* get an edge would be in the snow, but it is more a personal preference than anything else. Some folks prefer a FWD in snow. I do not.

Personally, I prefer a RWD car in the snow. I have been driving them since my youth and can use power to bring the rear end around when I want to. FWD does not offer that option. Actually, with DSC engaged there is no chance of inducing an unintentional drive wheel spin anyway. I just put good snow tires on my cars and they are as good in the white stuff as any AWD SUV.

MaltHound

The 0-60 times are identical for the 9^5 2.3T and the 523i SE, but the Saab delivers more torque.

If that were true (ie that the SAAB delivers more torque *to the wheels*) and that they are close to the same weight, then the SAAB would have a shorter 0-60 time. Since they are the same time, either the SAAB is heavier or it is geared higher so the crankshaft torque advantage (which may be higher, I don't know) is negated.

MaltHound

You're missing one variable - the turbo lag. Maximum torque is delivered at full boost pressure, which isn't reached immediately. This results in a lower 0-60 time than would be achieved if the torque curve was the same as for a naturally aspirated engine.

Good Point!

MaltHound

Beamers are superbly engineered cars, and deserve their fine reputation for drivability and reliability.

HOWEVER, you only drive one in the UK if you never want anyone but another Beamer driver to let you out at junctions, or into the traffic queue from a slip road.

The image of the nob-head sales manager in his 3 series welded to the back of your vehicle whilst doing 80mph in the third lane is not a stereotype.

Until recently I drove in excess of 25k a year and in my experience BMW drivers are the rudest, stupidest and most dangerous on our motorways bar none. Don't get me wrong, I know several decent upstanding citizens who drive BMW's. On balance though I have seen far more stupid, arrogant behaviour from beamer drivers than drivers of any other car.....although

4WD(SUV?) drivers come a pretty close second, usually blonde, D&G sunglasses and on the school run....

I suggest a move away from our beloved SAAB should be to a Mercedes, superb German engineering, without the attitude problem. Certainly a Merc' is on my wish list,(if you're listening Santa)

Al

Al,

You are making grand generalizations based entirely on your single vantage point, being from the UK. In the US (and I assume *many* other countries as well) while BMWs may project a certain "snob appeal" the drivers are on average no worse than the general population of other marquis drivers, and in fact, since one of the largest single make car clubs is the BMW CCA, which promotes advanced driving skills more than anything else, a pretty good size population of BMW drivers are actually better.

Also, nob-head sales managers do not get BMWs here as company cars. The Fords and Chevies and Chryslers unless they opt to buy them themselves. Many (most?) US companies will not provide their employees any non-domestic brand cars.

IMO, Mercedes does not compare on a performance level to either SAAB or BMW. In fact, it's rather difficult to find a merc with anything but an automatic transmission on this side of the big ditch.

-MaltHound

I know, and it's not only in the UK. We've discussed this before and I plan to leave it here. It's a pity we lost Grunff... (may the force be with him).

Now you've lost me too. I would only move to the other Swede.

-- MH '72 97 '77 96 '78 95 '79 96 '87 900T8

It is not only so in the UK, and you are generalizing on the basis of your experiences in the US. Maybe you should come over here, to the "Old Europe", and you'll find out that, IMO too, "Al" is not generalising but more so, stating facts.

-- MH '72 97 '77 96 '78 95 '79 96 '87 900T8

Yes, as anyone who hasn't already started ignoring my rants has heard by now :-), the 9-5 Aero suffers from this in spades. The full boost is VERY impressive, but due to the huge lag after every shift, you spend very little time at full boost even if accelerating aggressively. I'd guess the majority of the time in an agressive 0-60 type test is spent waiting for the turbo to spin up. Really kills your time.

But the other Swede, at least the examples I've tried, drives like a truck. When I bought my '02 9-5 Aero wagon I also drove the equivalent Volvo wagon. Good God what a boat. Might be OK for the soccer-mom types, but not for anyone wanting a sporty driving experience! Is this true of all Volvos, or just the giant wagon I drove?

Gary

So? I'd rather drive, or be seen in a truck than... what was it again?

-- MH '72 97 '77 96 '78 95 '79 96 '87 900T8

No arguments there, and I assure you, I hate them as much as you do.

I have considered this, and while there's no denying the build quality, I just don't like the way they drive. Maybe I'll appreciate it more as I get older, but for now I want something a bit more lively.

Hey! I still own 3 C900s, two of which (3dr T16s) are on the road! I just need something smarter to turn up to meetings in. I'm not one for appearances at all, but sometimes you have to wear a nice suit, and sometimes you need to turn up in (what other people will perceive to be) a smart car.

And on that subject, while looking through car adverts today I found a very, very nice sounding 9^3 HOT about 60 miles from here. Couldn't let that one go, so going to see it tomorrow. So you never know...

Not only that, but more torque means that the engine responds throughout the rev range in each gear. Hence torque can can compensate for less top end power to produce same 0-60 time (in a less stressful manner).

I also prefer a RWD in the snow or dry and although you can correct an over-steer situation on a RWD vehicle by modeling the gas pedal, I've learned to correct an under-steer situation on a FWD vehicle by modeling the "hand-brake" ;-)