SAAB Quality Since GM?

To open a can of worms.

I've always been a big fan of Saabs, possibly due to my perception that they were substantially engineered and innovative.

I especially like the 9000 series.

What I want to know, is whether that reputation for rock-solid build quality has been maintained since GM took over?

For instance, the 9000 had a chain-driven cam-shafts, which I always considered rather a better solution than belts, as failure usually means a lot of work.

What do you guys think?

Reply to
Steve Wade
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Steven,

Good question!

I think we need to address this.

This is what Saab needs right now, "better" build-quality.

Customer perception truly believes that quality has nosedived since 1993/1994.

SG

Reply to
Saab Guy

Uhuh. Very nice car.

No.

See the comments regarding such simple things as squeaks and rattles. I have 2 squeak and rattle free 9000s that are both over 10 yrs old. Not bad eh ?

To put it mildly !

I reckon 'real' Saabs were better engineered and built. GM appears not to understand what Saab is about I'll venture.

Graham

Reply to
Pooh Bear

As a saab tech.. everytime we see something GM involved, we cry..

extremly bad

Mike

Reply to
Michael

One word - BEANCOUNTERS !!!!!!

Teleman

Reply to
Teleman

Not a particular good example. The 9-5 also has chain-driven cam-shafts.

An Auto Express consumer survey earlier this year bore that out. It covered

50,236 people and 100 different cars. The reliability and build quality was disappointing, perhaps because other manufacturer have made huge progress. As a 9000 CSE owner, it feels rather strange to say that about a Saab!

The good points (always mention the good points) were that 9-5 ranked 2'nd in comfort, 16 in performance, 17 in practicality, 17 in ease of driving,

18 in ride.

The 9-3 ranked 10 in comfort, 27 in braking, 28 in performance.

The rest I better not mention :-)

Reply to
Johannes

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This seems to suggest that at least one core value is still intact - which is nice to know..

So assuming there was a lead time before the bean-counters did their damage - what would be the latest 9000 a true Saab man would contemplate?

Best regards,

Steve

Reply to
Steve Wade

You might want to avoid the V6 9000s ( rubber cam belt ). Otherwise any 9000 is just fine. They didn't get GMised ( other than the V6 engine which came from Vauxhall )

Graham

Reply to
Pooh Bear

Timing chain is a core value? Why so lazy people don't have to do maintenance and their engine will not self destruct? I suppose Ferrari has no core values either because they use those reprehensible timing belts in their inferior engine designs?

Any 9000, right up to the very last one off the mine, is worth considering IMNSHO. In fact a nice ;98 would be worth stashing in the back of the garage...

back at ya,

Reply to
Malt_Hound

Anecdotally at least, the GM V6 unit seems a bit suspect, as two persons of my knowing have had major problems.

Its the sort of thing which can't help but start a prejudice.

Steve

Reply to
Steve Wade

Perhaps you enjoy spending $1,000 every 30,000 miles just to replace a timing belt and much more if it breaks while the engine is running - I don't. I have a V6 GM 900, but I bought it as a 'sacrificial' car for amy daughter to learn to drive in, and I suspect it will acquire many dents and scratches before long once she starts.

As for using Ferrari as an example - why don't you tell us what maintenance intervals are for the Ferrari? I heard a rumor, and I will qualify it as a rumor, that the engine needs an overhaul every 3,000 miles. What we need are some facts - do you have the factory recommended maintenance intervals for a particular model Ferrari? I suspect the often quoted line applied to a Ferrari, 'If you have to ask how much it costs to maintain the car, you should not be buying the car!'

Reply to
ma_twain

That really is the point. Having to replace a timing belt at some considerable expense at regular intervals is not a great feature.

The only explanation I've ever heard in favour of timing belts is low audible noise ( Oh and maybe reduced cost for manufacturer - but that's not something of interest to the purchaser ) . In view of the excellent sound insulation in a Saab - that's not really a convincing argument.

Give me a timing chain any day.

Graham

Reply to
Pooh Bear

What are the new 9-3SS? belt or chain?

Reply to
Johannes H Andersen

All 4 cyl engines have timing chains. There is no 6 cylinder option in the 9-3SS (at least not in the US). Therefore, all (US) SAAB 9-3SS have chains.

Reply to
Malt_Hound

Is there a V6 in existence that doesn't have a bad reputation? There seems to be a few good inline 6's, but many problematic V6's out there from every manufacture I can think of that's offered one. Not to mention they almost invariably are less powerful with poorer fuel economy than a turbo 4, while having the increased complexity of a V block without the huge torque of a V8. The worst of both worlds.

Reply to
James Sweet

I worked with a guy who had a Ferrari, IIRC it had about 80K on it at the time with no major engine work, but it did require regular and rather expensive maintenance. That said, it was absolutely immaculate inside and out. Not a car I'd be comfortable driving around but nothing inherently wrong with the design.

Reply to
James Sweet

I'm somewhat split on the topic, Volvo has always used timing belts on their OHC engines, but up until the 90's they all had it right on the front so replacing it is very easy, not very expensive, and is just something you do ever 40-75K depending on whether it's an 8v non interference or 16v interference engine. I like the longevity of the chains Saab uses especially with them being back up against the firewall but then again chains can and do stretch and break and given it's not a regular maintenance item it's easy to not see it coming and be left replacing the engine. A friend of a friend recently lost his 9K to a timing chain failure.

Reply to
James Sweet

Might be good to give the beginning driver lots of supervised practice, I managed to put one small scuff in the bumper of my first vehicle but I know lots of people who didn't. I also knew a few people who got a nice first car and promptly totalled it though.

Reply to
James Sweet

The biggest Vee you can get in a transverse drive vehicle typically though.

Personally, I think Saab turbo'd 4s are great !

Graham

Reply to
Pooh Bear

It might help if the prospective driver had to pay for the vehicle !

I had no fairy godmother and my first car was paid for by me. I also had to service and maintain it ( no way I could afford to use a mechanic - never mind dealer prices ). That included an engine rebuild after not so long too.

I'm frankly disturbed that Ma is apparently happily prepared to see the vehicle trashed by her daughter on account of being a newbie to driving.

Does no-one give worthwhile driving lessons any more ?

Graham

Reply to
Pooh Bear

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