1835cc and Turbo/Super Charging

go to

and click on "the forced induction forum".....alot of info there and you can post(may have to register if not already registered) your question there...also there is a search function that may help alot... good luck

------------------- Chris Perdue

"Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug!"

Remove "PANTS" to e-mail

...just one question straight off. Why nor go to a bigger displacement engine before adding the hair dryer? An 1835 isn't the best engine regardless...if you are scared of stroking at least go to a 1914. It will last longer and have more power than the 1835...thicker cylinder walls.. But seriously. consider a nice stroker engine. A 2110 or

2332., That should give you all the power you need without the extra plumbing...and if it aint enough you can always turbo that as well. =-) The landy system is more a novelty than anything else...I'd go turbo over it any day. Anywho...here is one place to get a turbo kit. Keep in mind that you *will* have to change your cam and likely your compression ration...and very possibly your heads to make the most out of a turbo kit....so again,.,,you might as well go bigger....right? You ain't skeered of displacement is ya??

...Gareth

And here is where my ignorance starts to show. Everytime they start talking about bigger displacement, they talk about replacing my entire block with something else. Is that the normal "Air Cooled" route. In the V8 world I might bore the block. Is anything in my 1835 reusable when talking about stroking?

Thanks for help!

Gary Tateosian wrote:

Of course. Pretty much everything can be reused except the crankshaft itself. Depending on the stroke, your case (the "block") may require clearancing on the inside.

Max

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:18:23 -0600, Jim wrote:

..well actual;lly.... not much may be usable...deooendantt on condition. The magnesium case (block) on the acvw engine is considered a replaceable part. As the engine gets worn the bearings tend to press into the sioft magnesium and destroy the tolerances on the saddles. Yopu can, of course, have it line bored. Dependant on skill of the m,achinist and performace expectationsd this may be fine. Line bvored cases tend to run slightly lower oil pressure. When it comes down tyo it most people building a multi thousand dollar engine will jsut sped the $300-400 to assure they are startiung with a new and troble free platform. the pistons and cylinders on a VW are easilly replaceable...and so it is not economically practical to bore them as the machining costs would be equal to just throwing them out. Cam requirements vary dependant on displacement...head flow and driving expectations....lifters should be rep[laced with the cam as a set (this is the same in any enbgine american iron or otherwise). dependant on deck height and stroke the heads may be narrower or further from the block than stock,.,,,and so the pushroids must be made specifically to each application to achieve oproper valve train geometry. Likewise the rods may been to be a different length dependant on stroke to achieve proper geometry...or may need to be strionger (mostly the bolts) even in stock stroke yto hold the extra power available if you do turbo it etc. Valve size and porting play an enormous partb in unleashing an engines potential...bigger is not always better as you need velocity with flow. So heads are another variable. You may be able yto use many of the parts you have....or...well very few. You have to spec outn and decide what you are looking to achieve, and build a systemn capable of performing toigether. One thing is for sure, if you just slap a turbo on an unsuspecting 1835 that hasn't been built specifically to handle one youi will likely gop very fast for a very short amount of time. For every variable you change many others have to be examined and possibly changed. A proper engine is a system coimprised opf many parts...each selected top complement each other. My best adviuce is simnilar to those you have allready talked with....start fresh and build yourt dream mmotor,,,and keepo the 1835 as a back up. That way you can enjoy your toy the whole time you are buiolding...and have a back up engine for the future.

..Gareth

WOW!!!!.....Gary's been drinking again....or he slammed the car door on his hand....

------------------- Chris Perdue

"Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug!"

Remove "PANTS" to e-mail

...good guess. =-)

...Gareth (looking acusingly at the amassed pile of empties)

The cylinder kit you have has very thin walls. A turbo would not be a good choice, you will most likely see head leaks and cylinder cracking. The latter would leave you stranded in the desert..

You could switch to 90.5mm cylinders and pistons, you lose some cc but you gain reliability. They dont wear out as fast either. (More rigid cylinder wall). That's what I'd do, the turbo would more than make up for the "loss" of power.

Jan

Ehh, no. The block stays the same, assuming it's in good condition. The cylinders are removable, hence not a part of the engine block.

If you want to make it bigger, you have two alternatives, or you could do both:

Bigger bore, or longer stroke. Both can be accomplished while still using the same engine block (case, as we say). Bigger bore can be achieved by either using "slip in" big bore kits, virtually same as boring out a V8. Downside is that it makes the already thing cylinder wall even thinner, and it will cause problems like blowby and overheating, warping. The better way is to get oversize cylinders that require the case to be machined bigger, to accept the larger OUTSIDE diameter cylinders. The max you can go this route is 94mm. Giving you

1914cc with a stock stroke.

Then the other route to bigger displacement.. stroking. Stock stroke is

69mm, and the most commonly used stroker cranks are 78 and 82mm. Other sizes are also available. if you get a long stroke crank, you also need to use shallow/short "stroker" pistons. And preferrably longer than stock connecting rods with strokes over 78mm. (Stock rods are too short for long stroke engines to perform well and reliably at high revs).

Jan

With a stroker motor do you (or *can* you) have any clearance problems with the case? Seems like if the stroke got long enough that the connecting rod might interfere with the case. I've had too many "long stroke" clearance problems in the past to let this one go unanswered. ;-P

...yes of course case and even cam clearancing come into play....but with your short rod I don't think the stroke will be a problem shaggie..

...Gareth

I had a 2110 & it had a lot of power. I would upgrade to that.

hehe ;)

Yes, the case needs to be clearanced on the inside for the longer stroke crank. You dont need to remove as much material if you choose rods that have been designed to provide more clearance in that area. Or you could take your chances and trim the rods down too.

Jan

Ouch :D

Jan

Ok, the verdict is in.

1. People in this useNet group are very helpful.
2. Nobody had anything good to say about Turbo/SuperCharging.
3. Stroker seems the way to go.

C>Thanks for all the info. Need to digest it now.

...actually turbo's work very well with VW engines providing you build an engine strong enough to handle the power...just boltibng one onto an engine of unknown components is definitely not advisable. Build your stroker with strong quality componenets...and if you need more power later this is always an option..

...Gareth

Oh, there's nothing wrong with turbos, you just need to know what you are doing. Using a turbo on the street pretty much requires thick wall cylinders, like 90.0 or 94mm. Id go with 90.5 because of case strenght, no need to bore the case out as much as you would with 94's.

The small details with Turbo engine builds are critical, and there's more of them than there are with non-turbo engines.

But when built correctly, they run well, strong, and a long time.

Jan

I agree with Jan. A correctly-built turbo engine nwill last as long as an aspirated one, again, taking into account that the engine was assembled correctly, using good quality parts. Think about it- unless you "spool up" that turbo, so it is producing boost, you have-- hwat? A normally aspirated engine. Keep the compression down, use the right cam and heads, keep the timing right, build it right, and it will last a long time. It will be a basically stock engine (or 1776, or 1914, or whatever) until you stand on the gas and spool up the turbo. THEN, all hell breaks loose. Also, I would heartily recommend against using an 1835 as a base for a turbo, those 92mm cylinders are the thinnest of the bunch, and have a tendency to warp, under boost. I'd ditch the

92's and get a set of 90.5s, they go right into the same hole in the case and heads, or find a set of MACHINE-IN 88mm pistons and cylinders. Set up right, and built right, with good parts, and driven reasonably (yeahRIGHT) it will last a long time. No, maybe not 100,000 miles, but I know of turbo 1776's that were done right, that have 50,000 miles on them, and they can still spank a dual-carbed 1914 or 2017...it all depends on the combo.