SAAB Quality Since GM?

I suppose it is possible that the very advantage of a V6, its compactness, might actually be its Achilles heel, in that heat and forces have less material to disperse into, while also being less rigid. There might be harmonic value with a V8 also.

What about the Buick 3800? Bulletproof, great fuel efficiency (30mpg in a full-sized car with automatic trans), great torque and power. Great engine.

Or hell, I have a Saab 900 SE V6, 1994 model. Whatever people may say, it is a car that drove 190 k miles through the Northeast and still remains rust free (some bubbling near rear wheel well) and overall seems to be in excellent condition, even the leather and steering wheel. The only problem is I can't get it to start. But the engine turns over fine.

Oddly the engine has about twice as much oil in the crankcase as it should (the dipstick is way up...) although this is fresh clean oil, not like if a headgasket blew.

If I ever had the time to diagnose the thing, I bet I could drain the oil and it would fire up...

I don't know where all the complaints of unreliability of any Saab post-C900 or 9k come from, but really these cars are solidly made and durable. Do the power steering racks go every 100k miles? Do the gearboxes grenade themselves at 120k? Do the dashboards show more crack than a plumber after 10 years? Do the headgaskets blow every 150 k miles? Do the frame rails near the front suspension mounts hold so much mud and crap that they rust out and render the car a piece of scrap metal after 15 years? Do the wiper linkages break and leave you with no wipers just that day when you need the wipers on HI just to barely see anything while driving 20 miles per hour on an Interstate? Oh and heater valves and crumbling wiring and...

Don't get me wrong at all - I love the C900. My personal car is a 1990 Turbo. I also have a 1989 900 turbo, a mint 1990 900 S, a near-mint

1992 900 S (the 3 of which I'd like to sell) and also a 1987 SPG I've been stealing parts from. They are great road cars that are a joy to own, and even - work on. The 900 SE isn't technically mine either.

And the C900 is a very well put together car. How many other 20 year old cars do you see going about their business? A few Mercedes but that's it... And they are very resistant to rust, comparitively speaking.

But I can't go out and say that anything else produced by Saab is a junk car.

And for those who complain of V6 timing belts and turbo direct ignition cassettes, let me say that:

The timing belt is scheduled for 35k miles. If you change the tensioner to the new style, the interval becomes the standard 100 000km figure as any other timing belt car (like a 9-5).

The DI cassette will usually go 120 k miles and costs less than a transmission...

My big complaint with the DI cassette is not the frequency of failure or even the cost, but the manner in which it fails. I can think of very few parts in any car that both fail with such frequency *and* result in completely disabling the vehicle with no warning at all.

I agree. The DIC shouldn't even be a replacement item. GM's various distributorless ignition setups (since 1984) have proven to be pretty much trouble free and will last "forever" much like any other solid-state electronics. Why is Saab's version so very different?

However Saab has promised NHTSA that the new revisions of the unit are "good" and much more infrequent replacements. But still...

geez I am getting confused with too many gmail accounts...

Because the're too much clever electronics is in that DI cassette ?

As an electronics designer, I'd like to know what the typical failure mode(s) is (are). I'll bet there's something(s) straighforward that's fixable by design.

Graham

The failure is related to the heat and lack of cooling possibilities when mounted on top of the engine. I took mine apart, the insulation in one of the coils had burned through, I guess it short circuited.

It also help if you diagnose any overheating problem immediately, i.e. don't drive round with the temperature gauge at 3/4 mark. It must always be at a healthy 1/2 mark.

With the way the cooling systems were designed in the late 80's early

90's, I would guess that you are probably right on the money about the overheating being related to DIC failues. I mean, it doesn't make any sense to me that you would use an 89 degree C thermostat, and use a thermosensor switch in the radiator that first turns the fan on at 87 and doesn't put the fan at high speed until 92!!

How did the designers suppose that we were going to cool the engine down (and regulate it) to 89 degrees with > 92 degree coolant at the outlet of the radiator?

And this most certainly was not a GM design issue...

The opening temp of the 'thermostat' is merely that. It prevents a cool engine from getting cooling it doesn't need.

The coolant will actually be a lot hotter than the thermostat temp once the engine's doing some serious work.

You're taking the meaning of 'thermostat' too literally.

Graham

You reckon it's just heat ? Obviously that came to mind. Electronics can take some pretty serious heat as long as it's actually purpose designed to do so. Silicon semiconductors have a top limit on operating temp of 200 C. Integrated circuits rather less. Varies with complexity but up to 125C.

Graham

Not "happily" prepared to see the vehicle trashed, but I am realistic. The issue may not be her driving, but others. Driving skills, especially defensive driving skills are not learned quickly. The newbie has enough to handle with just controlling her own vehicle. Many things an experienced driver takes for granted are not taught in Driver's Ed. I remember when I learned to drive, traffic was much less and the drivers were much less aggressive. Gas was also under $0.30 a gallon :-)

One example of "defensive driving skills" we take for granted is predicting what the other drivers will do. I can tell which car/driver is going to weave through rush hour beltway traffic without signaling or looking. How? I can't really say, but I am always right. I suspect it might something to do observing subtle hints like hand position (holding cell phone) and front wheel angle/car position in lane. Try teaching that to a "newbie". They have to do the following and more:

1. Watch your speed
2. Watch behind you for car tailgating (always) and watch the cars beside you
3. look in front for brakes light or car slowing down (must learn to judge distance)
4. Watch for road conditions and changes in road conditions and adjust speed accordingly, but don't slam on the brake until you look in the rear view mirror
5. Tune radio/CD player and sing
6. Tell your parents to stop nagging - "I know it all" and "My eyes and reactions are better than yours"
7. Turn on lights if it is getting dark.
8. Turn on wipers if it starts to rain - and turn on lights if you turn on wipers - don't forget to slow down a bit

9.Check the dash for any warning lights - "check engine", engine temp rising etc

1. Listen for different noises that might indicate problems (flat tire, tapping in engine, failing transmission etc. (I owned a Ford)
2. Notice strange car behavior - pulling to one side, losing speed even if you step on the gas, brakes not working (I owned a Ford)
3. Anything else I do, but don't remember

On top of all this you ask the newbie to predict what the car two lanes over is going to do in the next 1/4 mile? Times are tougher for beginning drivers these days.

As for giving worthwhile driving lessons - how many children listen to their parents? I will do my best! She will not drive by herself for a year, even after she gets her licensee.

Johannes a ecrit:

The 2.0 litre 9-3 SS motor has timing chains. So do the GM Ecotec 2.2 and 2.0 motors used in other cars.

The Ecotec / Global 4 motor was developed from the outset, mainly by Opel and Saab engineers exclusively. The Saab variant has a head/block/rotating assembly developed by Saab entirely. However, the block/head/rotating mass and 5-speed transmission are used nowadays also in a few cars, like the Saturn ION RedLine and Chevrolet Cobalt SS Supercharged (with a supercharger in place of the turbo) making 205hp. If you open the hood of one of these cars, and look at the transmission it says "SAAB" right on it...

It's the copper windings in the coils, not the Silicon. I don't think there are any semiconductors in the DI itself, all the electronics is done before the DI and it's supplied with 400 Volts at the plug end. This reduces the size of coils necessary so that they will fit into the confined space. But extra heat combined with the vibrations will rub on the insulation material in the long run and may short circuit a coil. Once short circuited, the increased current will burn the coils. To prevent this, keep the engine cool. If the engine temperature rises above normal while driving on a hot day in city, then switch off the ACC and bear the heat.

I read somewhere that Ferrari's require engine maintenance every 5K miles that costs about $5K. I don't recall if this applies to old Ferrari's and/new. But if you can afford one, you can then afford the frequent maintenance costs.

Dan

A lot of it is that the dealers have that same attitude and will rape you for every last cent they can. An interesting example I found online is that at least one model uses the same reciever/dryer in the A/C system as a Saab

900. The part from Ferrari is around $330, from Saab it's around $80, aftermarket is $29. That's quite a markup!

Actually, I found the reverse with the AC. When you turn on the AC, the axuillary electric cooling fans come on. This helps cool the engine. Try this and see if it is true in your Saab. The best for the engine would be to rig a separate switch so you can turn on just the electric cooling fans without running the AC compressor.

The reason for that isn't necessarily to cool the engine but to cool the aircon condenser. If the condenser becomes too hot, then it doesn't cool the refrigerant, and there is no transfer of heat.

Most cars will do something like this. Many cars have a "pusher" fan behind the grille to suit this purpose, like my '91 Mazda MX-6 partscar. I'm thinking of taking that (relatively small) fan and fitting it to the intercooler on my 1990 900t...

On the C900, the compressor won't engage if there is not enough refrigerant pressure. Sounds great for an owner of a 900 with escaped A/C, but - no, in such a situation the fan still isn't engaged. Oh well!