Part Numbers for 1994 Saturn Temperature Sensors

Hi, SB, Google is your friend!

Dont worry about the 'single contact' sensor. It only provides the varying resistance for the dial on dash - nothing else. If your indicator is malfunctioning - this is it's sensor, but the 'signal' does not go to the PCM. This part is not available from Autozone or Napa.

-WaV

snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

---Hey, thanks! Normally I do pretty good with Google, but I think my thoughts on search words were receiving interference from the portion of the brain that handles aggravation/anger. I've swapped the ETS with a spare from the "donor body SL2" w/1.9 EFI DOHC. The numbers found will makeit easier when visiting the counter-monkeys at the parts house.

---For future reference, here's what part numbers I could cross to the Saturn Part numbers given on SaturnFans. Pretty much all the companies are subsidiaries. DEM is Dana Engine Management, Neihoff is Dana's best line, Echlin is slightly lower quality and MPE is NAPA doing nothing more than marking the price up on Echlin with their boxes. SMP is Standard Motor Products which is the generic line for Dana and as you may all know AC-Delco is a GM "name brand".

-21025106 =3D dual-terminal... is the Saturn number for the ETS/ECTS (Engine Temperature Sensor/Engine Control Temperature Sensor), the switch that controls the PCM/air-fuel mixture/cooling fan/transmission/etc. Wells - SU1425 Echlin - TS5587 DEM - TS10193 AC-Delco - 2131138 SMP - TS356

-21020124 =3D single-terminal... is the Saturn number for the CTS (Coolant Temperature Sensor), which for the operators who understand the importance of gauges, controls the temperature gauge. Wells - TU227 Echlin - TS6023 DEM - TS10128 MPE - TS6023SB GPS - 385146 Factory Air - 36462 BW - WT5029 Neihoff - TS71271 SMP - TX73

---This is a (1993=BD) 1994 Saturn SL1 w/1.9 TBI SOHC. The vehicle was bought used and ran pretty well for the first two years. Let me point out that the only thing that makes this GM product a decent vehicle is that it has a timing chain rather than a belt. This makes the engine durable, but the Delco electronics will be something that haunts us all until GM goes under and we don't have to worry about substandard electronics anymore.

---The problem is not solved yet, but it is being narrowed down. My bet is that it is a faulty PCM and as GM would have done, Saturn is ignoring it rather than recalling it. Cooling fan, Thermostat, O=B2 sensor and ETS (used because part number couldn't be found) were replaced. Battery disconnected for 5 minutes, though only 10 seconds is necessary to clear codes from the ECM.

NOTE: Remember to clear the codes after making repairs, by disconnecting the battery for 10 seconds. If the codes aren't cleared, incorrect signals can/will be sent to the ECM. Also, needed space for true/valid codes may not be available.

---The cruise control would work occasionally at first. Then the idle RPMs became fairly high at around 1100-1200 RPM. Other symptoms were erratic up-shifts/down-shifts that were uncommon even for GM (hate the way GM shifts... especially with cruise control activated). The idle RPMs gradually increased over the months and toward the end of my fuse, it had become so hard to start that I would have to hold the pedal to the floor while starting and the thickest black smoke (rich burn) would bellow from the exhaust as it would strain to bring the RPMs up to a decent level... while in the process, killing all local wild life faster than as if I used SeaFoam. Idle RPMs about this time in neutral were about 1800, then when settled it ran about 1400. Drive/Reverse was about 1200... and with the fuel mixture being so rich, the car was impossible to stop with gradual brake pressure and ready to launch when stopped.

---Engine temperature would get to =BE of the gauge and four times believe it or not, water had erupted from under the coolant reservoir cap. My method to keeping the temps down was the same as most, to trigger the relay for the fan by turning on the AC. This made the engine run even worse because the ECM was telling the RPMs to become xxxRPMs higher than the 800RPM idle... so, the ECM would force the RPMs down, causing even worse economy. The cooling fan failed, maybe not related; Maybe so, due to incorrect signals, so it was replaced. Fuel economy was horrible and so erratic, I couldn't begin to keep track of a full tank.

---With my working under the hood of nothing smaller than a =BD ton truck, looking for this ETS was to say the least, a royal PITA. Getting in and out of this dwarf of a vehicle is bad enough, but bending over at pelvic height? Sitting on a 1' step stool would be better than kneeling down to work on it. Besides, kneeling down gives me flashbacks of owning a GM. Replacement of the ETS and disconnecting of the battery to reset the PCM/ECM seems to have helped, but every time the temp reaches the =BE mark, the "Service Engine Soon" light comes on. I next have to install a new ETS and reset the PCM/ECM, then if the "Service... "light comes on again, short A & B terminals on the connector and grab any codes... if the light will go on at a convenient time and not during rush hour traffic when I am pressed for time.

---Thanks again,

-SB-

You have replaced all the critical sensors. You may have, unfortunately overlooked one (improbable?) possibility: A doa sensor. They can be damaged during installation! I've seen it. If you can, check the resistance of the sensor. Its a little tricky to hook leads to the sensor though. You might want to put together something from a scrap submin plug array.

snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

---Let me first say that I haven't had a chance to catch the error code yet, but just before the thermostat opens, the "service engine soon" light comes on. Temperature drops, but the "idiot" light doesn't go off after 10 seconds, it stays on for about 90 seconds. So far, I have always been in traffic and pressed for time so I couldn't pull over and capture codes, but I will eventually capture them and come back with codes and what the manual says about the codes, fix the problems and report back again...all this for the sake of future readers. Now please, allow me to state that if you want to buy a car and you are prepared to work on it yourself, even if you have a mechanical education/background, use the service manual even if only as a coffee coaster that is open to the section you are working on.

-wavy,

---I am ignorant to the DOA sensor. Illuminate me by telling me what a DOA sensor is and where to find it. I have a wide variety of terminals and alligator clips, plus various gauges and colors or primary and resistance wire, it's part of my job. Make note that when it comes to "tech" subjects, jokes really have no place. In all my years of automotive, I have never heard of this part. Again, note...I have been known to reach through the monitor and grab people for stupidity in "tech" sites. Also understand that this POS has me ready to run it off-road and video-taping the whole thing, in laymen terms, I have had it with GM completely and I don't see what Saturn did different that caused the employees to "start their own company because they are tired of the way GM did things".

---You emailed me off-list telling me that you believe it is the PCM because I had to reset the ECM by disconnecting the battery. I am not at the point of saying it is yet and I am not ready to tell future readers they need to run out and buy a $300+ part because their car is over-heating. I am going to try and capture the error codes first. I had stated in my last reply that I am suspicious of Saturn ignoring something that should have been recalled, but I have not yet found the problem, so I can't verify this... but with all the people who own Saturns having cooling problems, I would guess that there is a problem Saturn is ignoring. As for the email you sent me, If you are serious at all, you would know that resetting the "brain" is necessary in nearly every make vehicle to clear codes once you replace the component that gave you the error code. If not, l you give the engine a false signal from the ECM and in a case where, let's just say the ETS was telling ECM the engine was running too rich, the ECM would lean out the mixture. Replacing the component without resetting the ECM would have the ECM giving the engine a lean burn signal still, thus resulting in over-heating and quite possibly burnt valves and/or pistons having holes burnt through the tops. COPPICE!?

---Again, smart owners and mechanics don't say that gauges are unimportant. Also, in an electrical world, where computers are primary components, every* single wire should be functioning the way it was when it left the factory, if not, then the computer can and normally will* be confused...

...try tapping the electric fan to the fuel pump circuit and tell me how it responds in another 6 months.

---I am a proud owner of a 1973.5 and a 1979 international, I am an SAE certified mechanic (which doesn't mean squat in this age because you can pretty much get certification at City Hall these days with a $20 bill). My daily driver has 476,000 miles on it and it runs as strong as the first day I drove it. Vehicles don't last because of guessing, they last because of engineering and proper maintenance and repairs. Guessing plays no part in mechanics and shade-tree mechanics need to stay in the shade of the tree and out from under the hood.

---I frequent 4 bulletin/message boards that are IHC related and I say it all the time. You do not perform any* work without a service manual under your nose (I don't see any mention of a DOA sensor and I really don't think humor is appropriate in a tech section... until problems are solved... then we can all laugh when we find out how stupid GM was/is). When you spout out guesses on the internet, you are as much a failure at mechanics on the internet as you would be in a real-time situation.

---Because I know that foolishness can be contagious, I will say "I am sure you have helped many people, but if you need time off so you can collect your thoughts, take a week off". If you're serious about a DOA sensor, I'll return with "part numbers" for future readers. If you're going to be part of a technical site, I think it's appropriate to be technical, not radical... dude.

---Thank you,

-SB-

wavy wrote:

---Again, this car has me ticked off, but it makes me more determined to find out what the problem is... especially when reading how so many others have the same or similar problems... cooling issues. So, my reply was a bit harsh, if wavy was being serious, but it was honest... so don't condemn me for honesty, just take the font for what it was worth if it is upsetting... colored text on your monitor and nothig more...

... and lets get on toward revealing the problem and helping others... then maybe we can make the Saturn a better vehicle with some after-market parts we design ourselves!

;)