rhythmic hesitation in '93 SL1

The code 32 is a defective EGR. It should be replaced. A fairly simple 30 minute job if you have metric sockets and are mechanically inclined. The brown crud on the inside of the oil cap is probably condensation/water that has mixed with the oil. You need to keep your eye on this since it could be early sign of a head gasket problem. How did the oil that you drained look? Did it too have water in it as well?

When was the vehicle last tuned with new plugs? Are they correctly gapped? Have you removed them to see if they are oil or carbon fouled? When were your wires last changed?

Post what you eventually learn and good luck.

Bob

Wait...I think I have those code numbers reversed in my head...the code was NOT the EGR valve code, it was whatever the one was for quad driver module. It looks like EGR valve normally requires the combination of

28 and 32, this was just 28.

The car was bought used in 2000 with 94k and I've never had the car tuned, so when it last had anything done with the spark plugs is a mystery to me. I actually don't know how to remove the plugs, we tried pulling on them since that's how they pop out in my husband's car (his car's manual actually tells you how to do this!), but they wouldn't budge, and we were afraid to bust something. It's run so reliably, I guess I've just been waiting for something bad to start happening before getting anything done other than oil changes (I know...bad idea, but I buy cheap used junk cars, if it makes it 5 years then I'm already ahead...)

I didn't see any evidence of water in the drained oil, but could have missed it. I definitely wouldn't have seen a small amount of water emulsified in the blackness. Is there anything you can do to remove water from the engine? The first thing I thought when seeing the brown cream was a head gasket leak, but there isn't really any other evidence of this, at least no excessive white smoke. I did have to add some coolant for the first time ever recently (it probably badly needs a coolant flush, add that to the list) fairly recently after the add coolant light flashed at me. It was pretty full but not quite to the fill bar. But still, this was the first time in 5 years that there was a change in the level. Before refilling, the car had almost overheated in traffic. The gauge always goes just above the mark before the red zone before the fan kicks in, and this is normal operating temperature, however this time it went further than I ever saw it go before, seemed like the fan couldn't keep up. Since starting a new job right down the street from where I live, it's hard to get in enough driving in this traffic-clogged area to follow-up on or reproduce problems, and it's now a lot colder outside.

From your response, I think it would be best to take the vehicle to a trusted service center/garage and have it tuned up, replace the plugs, wires, gas filter, air filter, PCV, and thoroughly clean the throttle body. Techron fuel injector cleaner in the tank wouldn't hurt either ... And then see what happens with the hesitation and codes. I'd bet this is a fouled plug or bad wire.

The coolant is supposed to be flushed and changed every two years. You are long overdue. These engines are temperamental to overheating and the corrosion additives only last 24 months or so ... you obviously don't take care of your vehicle ... so bad things will happen and you are living on borrowed time. By the way, if you have an automatic transmission, that too needs an occasional drain, filter and oil change. I'd suggest doing that every 30K miles.

On the EGR, if it is still original, consider yourself lucky ... it is probably bad as well.

I'd also strongly suggest you keep an eye on the oil and coolant levels to make sure you have not blown the head gasket or cracked the head when it "came close to overheating". (It probably did overheat ... keep in mid the gauge will not read accurately if you don't have enough coolant.) The mechanic can do a compression test, but this will not guarantee finding a coolant to oil passage leak.

Good luck.

Bob

I'm going to have it looked at on Friday by a good mechanic (aka not at dealership). Crossing my fingers it's something to do with the plugs. It's really had this almost unnoticeable slight hesitation going about

30-40 mph for quite a long time, but suddenly it's hesitating and lunging (today felt like it was going to stall out again) much worse.

Yeah, with this new dose of fear I'll definitely get it done. The coolant has stayed amazingly clean looking all these years though. Transmission flush has also been on the list, this stuff adds up $$$. The engine temp gauge on these things is weird, there must be a really fine line between "normal" temperature (and a mechanic verified the engine temperature was well within operating range while the gauge read above the white mark just before red, on any other car this would indicate the verge of disaster) and overheating.

I got the EGR valve replaced the first week I had the car at 94k miles, so I'm just taking a guess that it's not the second one to go.

I'm really concerned reading about the light brown gunk in the oil cap. There was no sign of this coloration on the dipstick before or after the oil change, so far I've only seen it in and around the cap area. It's driven on really short trips almost exclusively lately, so I'm hoping this is just condensation causing an oil/water emulsion around the cap without the ability to boil off, since the engine rarely warms up. It had been unusually bitter cold most of this month. I can't detect any sign of glycol smell in the engine, but if it's still a tiny leak without noticeable change in coolant level, you wouldn't expect to smell it anyway. At any rate, if it's a gasket leak, hopefully this is still early sign and not too much damage has been done. My 87 Nova made it nearly 6 years after a bad blown head gasket (plumes of white smoke out the exhaust, car not starting) before the engine died on the interstate, which was probably due to a bad job with the gasket seal. It was having weird problems for months with overheating and coolant literally erupting out of the overflow tank while the radiator was empty. Blew $1200 on that and nothing fixed it (thanks Chevy dealer!). None of that with the Saturn yet... Thanks for your suggestions.

The brown "sludge" you are seeing is just condensation coming to a rest up there. It is normal if the car doesnt reach operating temperature often. Aka you make alot of short trips with it.

Your hesitation sounds like a bad plug and wire. Have it checked it out.

Your code is probably 26, Quad driver fault, which is often the EGR control solenoid, but could be the purge solenoid.

And about the temp gauge, it is normal operation for the fan to come on at the 3/4 mark on saturns from 91-94. They changed the operation in 95 due to scared customers. It then is normal operation to be around halfway when fans come on....

Hope it helps.... I see saturns everyday!

That's definitely what I want to hear and what makes sense, but I have a friend who insists it's minor head gasket leaking. I'll let the mechanic decide.

Really hoping that's all it is, or else no New Year's Eve party for me.

Yeah, that's it...I took a guess it was the canister purge solenoid out of the 4 possible options, since the coolant fan was working and there was no EGR fault code. No idea what that is, supposedly a cheap part that's impossible to get to. I haven't even seen the light come on for months, since it requires speeding on an interstate before it comes on (only above 60-65 mph). Usually you have to make it up to 70-75 mph before it firsts come on, and it fades out when you slow down below 65 (maybe this is the cops' new trick).

I was fine with it once a mechanic told me this was normal. It seems like the fan has been kicking in higher and higher up the gauge, it used to kick it precisely on the 3/4 mark, then it started a little above the 3/4 mark. And this last time when the engine almost or did overheat, it was at the verge of red before it kicked in. I was ready to turn off the car and leave it on the side of the road. Maybe this was just evidence of the dropping coolant level? You'd think that'd be independent of the temp gauge and electronics controlling the fan. It'll get hotter with less coolant but the fan should still kick in at the programmed temp, right? Maybe this gauge is not as sophisticated as a thermocouple...or is there another sensor independent of the gauge that kicks the fan on? That would be the only thing that makes sense, but I shudder as a chemical engineer...

Thanks for your suggestions!

Well, mine cost me about 50 bux Canadian at a dealership. Replaced it, ran OK for a while and I'm still getting code 26. However, it only happens in the fall and spring....go figure. I'm guessing it has something to do with a bad connection between the PCM and the solenoid.

Don't bother with the purge canister solenoid. It only gets activated when your car is idling and it closes when the car is in motion. It has nothing to do with your car's hesitation. I would look at the EGR solenoid instead and make sure it opens up when the car is moving.

Do you have A/C in your car? If you're really concerned about the fan not kicking early enough, switch your A/C for a couple of minutes. The fan will come on automatically and will stay on for few minutes after you switch A/C off.

There is an idiot light on your dash informing you that your coolant is low.

I'm pretty sure it is. There are two temp sensors in your car, one sends the information to your front dash, while the other sends the information to the PCM. The PCM then decides on the mixture, fan on/off commands, etc.

Oops....I should have read the whole thing. :) as per above.... yes

good luck!

Alex

If it makes you nervous, you can always force the fan in by turning on the A/C for a few seconds, then shut it off. This will trigger the fan to engage and it'll shut off automatically (as normal) when it reaches the low temp.

Scott

Nope no AC, the compressor was busted when I bought it, and it didn't seem worth it at the time to get it replaced (the longer the car lasts, the more I wish I replaced it at the start). I've really, really regretted this in 2 hour traffic jams in my former commute, next to fuming tractor trailers, in 98 degree humidity here in DC area.

The coolant light flashed at me for a split second before this incident, and for several seconds after the overheating incident. It was below the fill bar but not by a whole lot. Hopefully that explains the overheating, knowing there's a separate sensor.

Doesn't matter if the AC compressor is working, or whether the system is charged or not (as long as you didn't rip it out)....As long as you have the button, all your doing is tripping the electrical cooling fan with the AC switch. Next time your at 3/4 on the needle, push the AC button on & off (the inside blower has to be on as you get a yellow light on the AC button). Try it out!!

Scott

Just try not to do this too often on charged systems though. Compressors don't like to be cycled that fast. Luckily, my SL1 is still charged with the old R-12 refrigerant and I usually give it about 30-60 seconds before I switch it off.

Is your car overheating on a regular basis? Mine started doing that a few years ago, even in mild weather. I flushed the system and really flushed out the radiator. Checked its capacity and it seems to be at par with the specifications. I keep my coolant level in the reservoir where it belongs, replaced the thermostat, yet it still overheats. Interestingly, after the flush I noticed the temp gauge sits at 1/4 scale in the winter whereas it used to be half scale for the 12 years before the flush.

Ok everyone...the official diagnosis is in. It's the transmission slipping between gears, it needs a rebuilt transmission. First major problem with this car, so pending an opinion on the condition of the engine, I'm going to get this done.

navaidstech wrote:

Nope, it only overheated once when attempting to get home from my university right when they let a football game out. The car was idling for about 45 minutes to get through one traffic light (although overheated at a later traffic light), and apparently the coolant was low.

Ok..take that back for the time being. Apparently the mechanic hadn't seen the pulsation just having the car in park, and it couldn't be the transmission if it were in park right? A transmission shop thought it sounded like an engine problem, so the mechanic is going to look at it some more. I've gotten quotes for rebuilt transmissions between $1500 to $2300 (yikes), most of them in upper part of that range, wonder what a rebuilt engine would cost...

A lot less than that for sure. You shouldn't have to pay more than $1000 on a rebuilt engine. I would suggest visiting a few scrapyards in the area and see what they've got.

I picked up a used Nissan ........oh man, I can't remember the model # now....it came after the 300ZX......280SX??? Anyway, pretty good shape, about 80k miles on it. Got it for $500.

The mechanic is still stumped what the problem is now, he was able to replicate the pulsation and thought it was really strange. He said the car isn't giving him any other trouble codes other than 26, which I told him about. He did a tune-up with new plugs and wires and said that didn't fix it. Tomorrow he'll try cleaning the throttle body, but not sure what to do if none of this does anything.

i am wondering just a hunch, has the fuel presure been checked, may be failing fuel pump or filter.

I don't understand this, maybe someone can explain...but the mechanic said he took the vacuum off the EGR valve and the car isn't hesitating anymore. Is it normal for the EGR valve to not be under vacuum? Does this sound like the EGR valve itself being the problem, or the solenoid that controls it? I know the EGR valve itself is like a $20 part, they even change it for you at Jiffy Lube. Figures it looks like that silly engine code may be the culprit after all, guess this is what happens if you ignore a trouble code for 6 months.

Actually, this clears things up for me a bit

Sounds like the valve is sticking open, and he's forcing it closed by removing vacuum. Guess this is probably a bad solenoid?