I bought a 94 Saturn SL1. At 35,000 miles the alternator went out. At
60,000 miles that transmission went. Saturn graciously agreed that their transmission should last for more than 60,000 miles and replaced the tranny ($600) if I paid the labor ($800). Less than 60,000 miles later the tranny went again. This time they refused to replace it using the age of the car as an excuse - I guess this means that if I buy tires rated for 40,000 miles I can expect to get only 20,000 miles because the car is old. To put the cherry on top of the sundae, the alternator went out again. Saturn should get back to school and learn how to designand build dependable cars.
You are not telling us if the car was new when you bought it. If it was used, all bets are off.
Assuming you bought it new, it all depend on how you drive the car: if you have a leaded foot and tend to abuse the drive train, then expect such short lived components (ditto for brake pads, CV shafts, etc). Keep in mind that a car (any car) is a mechanical assembly of some complex, and will fail (not if, but when) eventually.
Buying a car, such as the Saturn SL, don't expect too much: these are basic cars with minimal consideration for long term reliability. You want a very reliable car? Buy a R-R.
My 94 SL2 - I've had to replace the clutch, the upper engine mount, the tensioner, the idler pully and the water pump.
Sounds like my car sucks, too.
I've replaced these things over a period of 4 years...an average of about $125 / year (okay, I did some of the work myself)
It's 10 years old with 160,000 miles. I'll GLADLY pay $125 / year to keep her running. I'm making money every day I drive this car!
I'm already planning for a failed alternator and power steering pump...and some other mechanical parts...just because I KNOW they'll fail sooner or later. Probably would on just about any 10-year old high mileage car, even, I dare say, on Hondas and Toyotas.
You mean Saturn has been LYING by telling us they are "A Different Kind of Company" and they are lying to us when they say their cars are generally reliable!
Heh, funny you mention that... I have a 1992 SL1 that aparently i've been driving for a year with blown rings. Still drives just fine, didn't find it until the engine light came on complaining about PCM problems. (code 19 for anyone who might be able to tell me where to look, other than a new PCM)
Paid $400 for it a year ago with 113k miles. It has 124,500 on it now, and am looking at an engine swap. Although, a $400 car, that i've sunk $1200 into already (mostly regular maintniance, but i did hit a curb cracking the subframe in 5 places aparently, broke 2 motor mounts, and blew the shocks, but that was only $700 to repair) So aparently my saturn sucks too, because engines shouldn't blow at 113k miles? I dunno, ask me to fix your computer, i can do that, ask me to fix a car, heh, you're on your own. :)
I'd gladly go out and get a new saturn tomorrow if money allowed. I think they're a very comfy ride, cheap to maintain, but yes, when shit goes bad, it really goes bad. Still worth the money.
The thing that ticks me off is these people will come in here to vent about how much they hate Saturn but they never came in here before for help. Those kinds of people dont deserve a forum to rant on. They expect GM or Saturn to hold their hand for their entire ownership of the car. Sooner or later the "Owner" is responsible for maintaining the car. The message from Jason Sacks is the kind of people we need more of. People willing to ask good questions, not raise hell at the last sign of trouble.
Well, that's nice of you to say, but I was really looking for background information so I would be knowledgeable when talking to the dealer about my problem. The fact is that my turn signal has almost never worked on my Ion - maybe for 1000 of the 24,000 miles I've put on the car - and this is certainly in no way shape or form something I'm liable or responsible for.
This may sound like raising hell, but due to this problem I won't buy another Saturn. And I'm a Saturn loyalist - my wife and I have owned three SL2s, an SL1, a VUE (which my wife lives) and my Ion (which I really dislike, for other reasons along with the turn signal problem). That's six cars, each of which we've bought new, in about ten years. And our business will be going away.
My car's at the dealer now, as they try once again to repair this problem. When I go back this afternoon I'm going to get some addresses from the dealer and mail letters saying what I said above.
Saturns have always been cars in which the details were attended to, like you would expect from a car selling for a much higher price. That to me was the key factor, along with their sales approach, that seperated Saturns from other GM cars. This experience has shown me that that approach is no longer the case, at least for their lower-end cars. I was looking forward to a long relationship with Saturn - they do a lot to make the experience positive - but now I feel I can get as much value and satisfaction from another car as well. All because my damn turn signal doesn't work.
"Saturns have always been cars in which the details were attended to, like you would expect from a car selling for a much higher price. That to me was the key factor, along with their sales approach, that seperated Saturns from other GM cars."
Well said. I feel the same.
If the turn signal thing is an oddity (is an isolated issue), then my 2 cent opinion says to pursue the repair up the chain of command coolly and methodically and consider it the exception and not the rule. I wouldn't wipe Saturn out as a potential supplier for personal transportation on this signal issue.
I have to agree. It sounds like you've had a great relationship with Saturn. It'd be sad to throw it all away over what should be a minor issue, which should have been fixed already.
Please ignore me if you were already aware of this, but the "problem" with the double-time blinking rear signal is directly related to the problem with the front signal. I say problem in quotes because the fast blinking is actually a feature (in the relay, I believe) to let you know that you have a turn signal burned out. So, fix the front and the rear will take care of itself.
No you're not responsible for "this" and there is a fix for it but your dealership doesnt seem to me up to par on it. Your cars still under warranty so just make sure it gets taken care of.
One car out of six changes your opinion?
Has your dealership changed ownership recently? Is there another Saturn dealership close enough for you to try? These kinds of problems come and go throughout the car industry. Good cars/dealerships go bad, bad ones get good, etc etc.
Ha ha or as in my case the Saturn of Albany opened Saturn of Clifton Park so it the service is terrible at the one you can be damn sure it will be bad in the Clifton Park location as well. [ The Otto Group ] owns both of them and a few other dealerships also known for bad service.
If its no longer under warranty the best bets to find just a GM dealership that will handle a saturn or a independent shop thats to your liking if thats the case. No reason to limit oneself to Saturn dealerships.
That's a good question. I was definitely irrational in the level of anger I felt and continue to feel about this turn signal issue, but no it's not the only reason that I'm going to move away from buying Saturns.
I bought my Ion due to the car I had before it. I had leased my previous car, an SL2, during the big leasing boom in 1999, and my lease was due to expire. I was receiving mail almost weekly telling me to come in to my local dealer, who would let me out of my lease early and into a new car. Since I had heard horror stories about people paying exorbitant fees on lease returns, I was anxious to get that weight off my shoulders and also have a new car.
I was told that the Ion was the new version of the SL2, test drove it and liked it, and happily ended up buying it. Within 1000 miles I noticed some small but irritating problems: the turn signal problem, the radio would sometimes for no apparent reason get very staticky (a problem that spontaneously went away), the car seemed to have a lot of road noise, and the engine seemed to idle loud. Still, I was happy enough with the other features of the car - fun styling, a deep trunk, the offset dash, good power on the freeways - that I didn't exercise my return privileges.
Within the first 1000 miles of owning the car, I began having problems with my turn signal. I went to two different dealers several times in the first few months of owning the car to get the turn signal issue dealt with; both times it was kind of a hassle. The first time I was given a bulb and it was explained to me how to change it; the second time at a different dealer, I stopped by, requested they change it, and ended up sitting for an hour and a half waiting for this repair. Granted it was a Saturday afternoon and I didn't have an appointment, but regardless I decided the issue was just not worth the hassle, that I would just live with having a car with no turn signal.
Finally, after a near-miss accident one day when merging on the freeway, I decided to ask for this to be fixed. Yesterday was the third and hopefully final fix necessary to get this working but frankly I have no faith that the problem won't come back.
The signal light problem isn't the only reason this will be my last Saturn. The service I received will also be a reason - everyone has been friendly and professional, but it took forever to get this resolved. There are a ton of other reasons: I'd like to drive a hybrid, not just due to high fuel costs but because cars are bad for the environment; the car interior is too loud; my kids are almost teenagers and the back seat gets crammed with three kids in the back; wish for something different to drive; even the fact that the dealer's waiting room is cold and uncomfortable.
I didn't mean to write a whole dissertation on this, but clearly I felt the need to really vent. Thanks.
If it does, familiarize yourself with any Lemon Laws applicable in your state, and then bring them up the next time you have the car in for service. You may scare your dealer into fixing it RIGHT this time.
No problem. Saturn ceased being a different kind of car company some time back, and I won't be replacing my SW2 with another Saturn when it finally dies. I needed a second car about a year ago, but Saturn wouldn't combine the options I wanted on the same car even though both were available separately on the same model (manual transmission and AWD) so Subaru got my business.
They cant put those two together (awd + manual) because those two transmissons are completely different! Do you expect them to re-engineer the entire transmission? There is no prevision on a manual for a rear drive shaft...
Not sure about 2003 or 2004 stats but you do know that Subaru is ranked below Saturn right? Incase some of you dont know European auto makes are falling way behind American makes in build quality and reliability Heck autozone doesnt even have rotors for a 2003 Forester which is what I'm guessing you bought over a Vue. Best price for a front rotor at AdvanceAutoParts for a Vue is 34 bucks. For a Forester 63 bucks. Hope you enjoy the additional cost that comes from that Subaru... Though I cant defend much of Saturns stuff since they outsource so many things.
IMO awd is overrated and kills fuel economy and increases repair cost. Best avoided and substituted with traction control.
And their failure to offer the combination I want cost them my business.
It depends on what rank you're talking about. In offering the vehicle I wanted, Subaru ranked higher. In side impact crash testing for 2003 Vue vs. 2003 Forester, Subaru ranked higher.
Yeah, that cvt transmission in the 2003 Vue was a real piece of quality.
I'm willing to pay more to get what I want.
Many people are.
Saturn should learn from that.
I have traction control on my 1998 SW2. It doesn't handle as well as the AWD on my Forester for my 140 mile daily round trip commute over a continental divide in the Rocky Mountains where snow can come out of nowhere. It snowed as recently as 2 weeks ago.
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