I am the proud owner of a 2001 H6 VDC, picked up yesterday. The car has
94000 Km (58000 mi) on it, (all highway I'm told), but is otherwise beautiful!
My other car is a 96 Mustang GT with auto trans. I shift the Mustang manually (1-2-D instead of just D) almost exclusively. I also manually downshift from D to 2 when coming to a stop.
Anyone have an opinion of using this technique with the Subie? I checked out some reports on the net that said the repair frequency of Subaru transmissions is higher than normal. Don't want to do my new baby any harm!
Hi, Today's auto tranny is smarter than you, IMO. Why bother? makes you feel good? Afraid to drive manual? Even my daughter who never drove manual managed to drive her friend's Passat with manual when the driver got too drunk to drive home one week-end evening. Tony
Can't get a manual with the H6, at least in Canada.
I've driven manuals since '69. Mustang was my first automatic. I like the control manuals give, and shifting an automatic is as close as I can come. I especially like to use the D-2 shift coming up to a light to use engine braking to slow the car. Sounds cool, too, at least in the 'Stang.
My concern is, is this going to harm the transmission? The 'Stang's tranny is built to handle this kind of stress. The Subie, who knows? Also, AWD components have to be considered. My question is, has anyone experienced any tranny wear/damage from driving this way?
Brakes are for slowing the car down - even in a manual transmission car. They are cheap and effective. You will prematurely wear out the transmission in any car if driven in this manner.
I shift manually too, mostly for engine braking on long slopes and downshifting for passing - the best auto still doesn't know beforehand when I'll pass... :) I have only had my car for ~5 months now so can't vouch for longevity.
I do remember the Owner's Manual recommends using engine braking, even with the automatic. I don't remember what it had to say about upshifting. I'll go get it this morning and check.
That's my point: I don't necessarily want to floor it, I just want to downshift. There may be someone ahead... :)
I looked in my owner's manual and while it does not explicitely tell you to downshift it does tell you to use engine braking on long downhill roads (does not specify if that is with auto or manual transmission) and it provides maximum downshift speeds for the 3-2-1 gears. By contrast my previous car's owner's manual, an old Mercedes, specified not to use engine braking with the automatic transmission. Might be that older, non-electronic transmissions, had trouble with that.
I like to downshift so that I don't have to wait for the engine to downshift. Yes, I would be happier with a manual but I did not have the option.
Exactly. The tranny responds almost instantaneously if you ask it to. Otherwise, why go down a gear anyway if you are not CERTAIN you are ready to pass? Occasionally, I will downshift just before passing IF I can see that the distance available is going to be short but I still have to wait for another oncoming car to get by first. This possibly saves a fraction of second. The other time I use the manual shifting on my automatics (other than the obvious steep-descent-for-braking purposes) is when climbing a long, somewhat steep hill and it shifts down to 3rd anyway to sustain speed. I then lock it down into 3rd so it does not prematurely come back up to 4th before I finish the climb. Otherwise, it may lose speed again in 4th gear because that gear cannot sustain the speed I am asking from it on the climb. This saves the tranny from searching and keeps me easily sustaining the speed I want. (I hate riding with someone when they let their tranny go up and down between 3rd and 4th repeatedly on a climb.)
Hum. The original question was: Does it damage the transmission to do it? Subaru doesn't seem to think so, or at least doesn't mention it in the owner's manual, and noone has come forward with information saying that it is damaging.
Some people like to manually shift (me), some don't (Rob and DH). Question of taste. Go figure.
Not sure about 2004's, but my 2001 legacy dosn't do a great job of downshifting for acceleration depending on your speed. From what I remember from reading reviews its a common problem with at least that year. Bottom line is if I want make sure I know how the car is going to respond (ie need guaranteed fast acceleration) I manually downshift.
I've seen this comment from several people on the alt.autos.audi group in addition to here, and I have to disagree in the case of the manual: There is no doubt that using the *clutch* to slow a car will wear the clutch, but using the *engine* to slow the car causes no extra wear on anything, and can actually save brake pads (though it likely uses more gas). The key, of course, is matching revs between rotating components within the transmission before coupling them together. This is accomplished by double-clutching to match the lay shaft to the output shaft *before* engaging the lower gear (reduces wear on synchros) and then matching engine RPM to the lay shaft before releasing the clutch *after* engaging the lower gear (reduces wear on the clutch). With a little practice, this entire evolution can be done in about 2 seconds.
And with a little more practice, it can be performed while braking for a corner by using the heel and toe of your right foot to operate both the brake and accelerator pedals at the same time. (Much as I'd like to pretend that I'm a pro at heel-and-toe braking, I have to confess that I'm still not smooth enough with it to try it in a car that's at its limit in a corner -- I'm too herky-jerky with it to keep the car on its proper line. But I'm getting better.) At least one person I know has a foot that's wide enough -- and pedals spaced close enough -- to use the left and right
*sides* of his right foot to accomplish the same thing, rather than turning his foot sidways and using his heel and toe. He's about 6 foot 14 and drives a VW bug. I'm about 5 foot 6 and can't manage that maneuver on the Audi (haven't yet tried on the Forester, which I've only test-driven so far).
When driving the Olds (which has a 4-speed slushbox but is otherwise quite sporty), I keep the car in L2 or L3 when driving through town, depending on how fast the traffic is moving. The goal it to keep cruising revs between about 2000 and 2500, thus giving me decent engine braking when I let off the accelerator -- as well as good throttle response when desiring to speed back up -- but not using that much more gas than loping along at just above idle. If you change the selection while at a stoplight, you'll cause the transmission zero extra wear, because it's already idling against the torque converter in 1st gear anyway. Dropping the gear selector from D to L2 while driving 50 mph (as an extreme example) will force the 2nd gear clutch pack to absorb a substantial difference in revolutions -- which I've no doubt will, with repetition, reduce the life of the transmission.
I wouldn't be surprised if some of the smarter throttle-by-wire cars that employ slushboxes actually blip the throttle upon selecting a lower gear so as to simulate the manual tranny rev matching described above, and thereby reduce the resulting wear on the auto transmission. This seems especially likely given the number of new cars being offered with "manu-matic" transmissions (auto transmissions with a "manual" mode, like the Porsche / Audi Tiptronic or the tranny in my Dad's old Dodge Intrepid, to name just a few). These automakers wouldn't offer a car with a feature that is likely to increase their warranty repair costs.
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