Sad 98 OBW Owner

Well, I've been a proud Subaru owner since 1985 until recently. I had my 1985 turbo for 10 years, put 230,000 miles on it, sold it for $1700, and that person put another 100,000 miles on it. Now I own a 98 OBW with 140,000 miles on it and the dealer said that they can't find out why it is running too rich and the idle surges and the mileage has gone into the toilet. They're telling me it could be a rod or crank bearing. The dealer showed me that the thrust on the crank is way out by putting a small pry bar behind the crank pulley and watching the pulley move out about a 1/4". I've replaced plugs, wires, coilpack, IAC, BPT, and had to replace head gaskets due to a thermostat failure. So, anyone out there had any dealings with ccrengines.com or any used engines for that year? I still love the car and it's paid for. I'd love to get it working again.

Thanks

Reply to
rabidsqrl
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Hi,

Only dealing (so far) with CCR is to send 'em an e-mail for a quote for an engine for my '90--at 343k miles it's getting tired! They were quick and thorough in their reply. I hope that speaks well for their work.

Back to your original problem--rod and/or crank bearing problems MAY be evident, but the symptoms sound more like ignition/fuel systems. Bearing problems typically manifest themselves as knocking noises and loss of oil pressure before anything else. OTOH, bad O2 sensors are the first thing that comes to my mind with the running rich problem. My experience is that Subaru's designed a "fail safe" system into the fuel delivery: if something goes bad, it "fails" to "full rich." Not sure if that applies to later years, but it's something to have someone else (not the dealer who can't find anything!) take a look at before going the new engine route, cuz bad parts on a new engine will continue to do the same thing. Someone should be able to read the failure codes stored in your computer and see what's going on.

Best of luck,

Rick

Reply to
Rick Courtright

I agree with Rick as to a possible ignition problem. Wow a 1/4 (0.250) inch end play that usually is 0.002 inch. I question the measurement or the measurer. Get another dealer or Subaru knowledgeable person to get a second opinion. eddie

Reply to
Edward Hayes

symptoms similar to bad temp sensor - ECU thinks car is cold and chokes it. You might try asking for advice on the forum at

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- good folks.

Carl

1 Lucky texan

rabidsqrl wrote:

Reply to
Carl 1 Lucky Texan

I agree...sounds like O2 sensor or other electronics problem....get a nother mechanic...preferably not a dealer.

Best wishes.

Edward Hayes wrote:

Reply to
Scott & Robin

OK....2 vote for possible bad o2 sensors and 1 vote for possible bad temp sensor. My question is, can these sensors be bad and not generate an error code? My mechanic insists that if (o2) sensors are bad, the computer will say so.

Reply to
rick

have a good top end flush done to clean the injectors. O2 sensor would throw a code. TG

Reply to
TG

And your mechanic is correct, however a dirty injector will not show up nor will an inaccurate coolant temp sensor....until they dump enough fuel to ruin the O2 sensor and/or cat shit converter. TG

Reply to
TG

Forgot to mention, also replaced both O2 sensors and front cat converter (dealer recommendation) didn't fix the problem. No DTC codes and no check engine light. I have an Auterra OBD II scanner that can read codes and other vitals, it shows nothing. Dealer seems to live by codes. If there aren't any they can't diagnose the problem. Can you see my frustration. :( I feel I know more about this engine than they do. :)

Thanks for the info and suggestions.

mike

Reply to
rabidsqrl

Agreed. If there really is 1/4" of play, there should be about 2 lbs. of metal shavings in the oil when you change it.

Reply to
Jim Stewart

Yes! They can be bad and not generate errors.

I did some research on O2 sensors just recently. Computer will give you error code for O2 sensor if it's completely dead (shortage, broken cap, no connection, etc.). But it's very rare cases. In most cases sensor just clogging little by little. And readings getting worse and worse. And computer just adjusts for "new readings" as long as it gets at least something. When oxygen sensors get old, they just do not react on changes as quick as they should and you are getting lean or reach mix for longer time what kills sensor even more.

Another aspect - time. Most mechanical books recommend to change O2 sensors every 50-60K for pre-'96 cars and every 100K for cars starting from '97. Just replace it.

Other things "may" be replaced even without intensive checking - spark plugs (for Outback 2.5L should be changed every 100K), spark plug wires, PCV valve (recommended to change every 30K). MAF Sensor (if you have one) may be cleaned using "Electric Contacts Cleaner". It gets dirty even with best filters. Injectors "may" be cleaned every 3-6K but it depends on what gas do you use.

Good luck.

Reply to
Guest

Hi,

I'm not sure when the computers started showing codes for O2 sensors--older ones didn't. On my '90, I can completely disconnect the O2 sensor and not even get a code. As others have said, even on the newer cars, there may not be a code until any component involved actually fails completely. '98 was only a couple of years into OBCD II or whatever they call the new system, so it might not have been as sensitive as the newest units.

Rick (the other one)

Reply to
Rick Courtright

Hi,

Sounds like it may be time to rule out another problem--a "sick" engine. I'm a little amazed at the 1/4" crank movement thing: your engine should have self-destructed long ago if that's the case. As another poster put it, play there is in the order of a few thousandths. Then things start running into each other, shredding lots of metal just before they come to a screeching halt.

But... can you find a good mechanic to do a real compression test (with a gauge, not extrapolated from computer output) and a cylinder leak down test? If you have a weak cyclinder (bad rings, leaky valves) that can keep the computer guessing and duplicate some of the problems you mentioned. Also inspect all vacuum lines and replace any that are brittle--tiny vacuum leaks will also cause some problems. Along with the fuel economy problems, have you noticed any change in oil consumption? As in higher? That can be a symptom or a cause: symptom of bad cylinder(s) or cause of O2 sensor or cat failure from "running rich" as you turn your engine in essence into a two-stroker.

Many of the mechanics today forget the engine's still just a pump under all the glitz and sensors, and if the internals aren't good, there's nothing the electronics cad do to "undo" the damage.

I understand your frustration. Been there too many times.

Rick

Reply to
Rick Courtright

I have read on this news group that if only the preheat heater in the O2 sensor is defective it will NOT give an error code. Maybe the person who discovered that after many dealer trips will respond. eddie

Reply to
Edward Hayes

It could be the temp sensor has failed. I had this problem on my 91 Golf and replacing the temp sensor fixed the problem. Also, a friend had a Saturn that couldn't pass deq - same problem, same fix except she didn't have the surge symptom.

Reply to
John Rutledge

I think I'll try the engine coolant temp sensor. Only $20.00 bucks. Whats to loose. Is there a shade tree mechanic way to clean the injectors? They are very easy to take out. Should I also check the fuel pressure? Could the elec. fuel pump not be pumping enough or the pressure regulator not regulating?

Thanks again,

mike

Reply to
rabidsqrl

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