Saw a crazy Subie owner the other day - Towbar mounted to

Maybe he pushes his trailer? :-)

Bobby wrote:

It's not the AWD that's the problem, it's the transmission. My 5-speed Forester can be flat-towed all day long without any problems at all. As long as all four wheels are turning the same speed, there's no problem. (Note that with a tow dolly, all four wheels *do not* turn at the same speed.) But if I had an automatic -- well, that would be a different situation. Automatic transmissions require the engine to be running for operation of the transmission pump that lubricates the tranny's moving parts. Turning the transmission's internal parts for long periods without the engine running (as when flat-towing such a car) is like running an engine without an oil pump. That is to say, it's a Very Bad Thing (tm). Manual trannies don't require a pump for lubrication, and are therefore okay to flat-tow. I *have* heard stories of people flat-towing automatics by idling the engine the whole trip. Personally, I would rather rent a flat-bed trailer. By relying on the idling engine for transmission lubrication, you risk overheading the engine due to being in the towing vehicle's draft. Not to mention that your transmission will be fragged if the engine should stall for whatever reason.

- Greg Reed

Not a problem if the OBW was a manual transmission model.

I posted this once before, but the subject begs further posting. First let me state that I agree with everything that is being posted here about not towing Subaru AWDs with automatics. I would never tow one with all the wheels on the ground. That said,.....

I bought a '97 OBS in February with 121K miles on it. It had been owned by a older couple and towed all over the US, with a mounted tow bar and a fuse in the FWD fuse socket. The car drove great and they stated that the miles on the car didn't reflect the actual engine miles because of the towing. I got a good price on the car and emediately drove it home and put it on jackstands. I dropped the transmission pan and cleaned up built up crud in the pan....no metal to speak of. Then flushed the trans thoroughly. Filled it with Destron III and put in Lubeguard. I drained the front and rear differentials and found nothing abnormal in the drained grease. Then put in Synthetic grease.

I now have 124K miles on it and the trans is quiet and shifts great. No noise from any of the running gear. You figure it out.... I can't. I called the dealer here in Bellevue, Washington and asked about the permissability of towing one of these this way and they said no problem....just put in the FWD fuse. I about broke my jaw when it hit the ground.

OK....My take......don't risk damage to your car by doing this! I took a chance by buying the car and so far I've done well.....you may not be so lucky.

Regards, Jim Lofgren...Redmond, WA

Weird. What's strange is that people think a fuse is going to do anything if the car is off and being towed. :-/

I'm curious what good the fuse would do anyway if you were towing with all four wheels on the ground. And if they were towing with the front wheels up, I would at least expect the center diff to be fubared, if not the trans itself (maybe it's part of the 4EAT?)

Sorry I don't recall where, but I did read once that ,in an AT, you can use the FWD fuse AND turn the ignition on (or ACC? not sure) and tow with all 4 on the ground. Seems like it would be rough on the battery and the 'duty solenoid C'. Of course, just because I read it doesn't mean its true.

Carl

Patrick Fisher wrote:

...

see

Trust me, I'm not. As said before, I'd be more then happy to foot the bill for a flat bed... What bothered me was the fact that if others see it, they are likely to try it (informed or not)

Mine is the first new car I've ever owned and I won't take any chances with it. ;)

Nasty little disclaimer at the bottom though

"Ignignokt" wrote in message news:40e1d317$ snipped-for-privacy@post.newsfeed.com... | *** post for FREE via your newsreader at post.newsfeed.com *** | | Bobby wrote: | > I live in Anchorage, AK and recently had relatives from the lower 48 | > come up for a visit. We went down to Seward and had a blast looking | > at all the sights. When parking in one of the local parking lots, I | > saw what appeared to be a 2000+ Model OBW with a towbar mounted | > permanently to the front bumper of the car. I see these hitches all | > the time for people with RV's and I waited around for a while to see | > if I could locate the owner.... | >

| > Long story short, from everything I read, doesn't this sound like a | > horrible idea?!? I was wondering if anyone had any....any at all (as | > I've never heard of such) info regarding it being OK to tow an AWD | > vehicle like that. I suspect the owners had to have mounted that | > themselves as I can't see a shop doing it for them. | | It's not the AWD that's the problem, it's the transmission. My 5-speed | Forester can be flat-towed all day long without any problems at all. As | long as all four wheels are turning the same speed, there's no problem. | (Note that with a tow dolly, all four wheels *do not* turn at the same | speed.) But if I had an automatic -- well, that would be a different | situation. Automatic transmissions require the engine to be running for | operation of the transmission pump that lubricates the tranny's moving | parts. Turning the transmission's internal parts for long periods without | the engine running (as when flat-towing such a car) is like running an | engine without an oil pump. That is to say, it's a Very Bad Thing (tm). | Manual trannies don't require a pump for lubrication, and are therefore okay | to flat-tow. I *have* heard stories of people flat-towing automatics by | idling the engine the whole trip. Personally, I would rather rent a | flat-bed trailer. By relying on the idling engine for transmission | lubrication, you risk overheading the engine due to being in the towing | vehicle's draft. Not to mention that your transmission will be fragged if | the engine should stall for whatever reason. | | - Greg Reed | | -- | 2001 Chevy Astro AWD (wife's) | 2004 Subaru Forester Turbo 5-Speed |

I knew it would come up... Damn, I shoulda checked to see if it was an AT or MT. I was a little busy defending my earlier comments to my in-laws about towing a Subie though.

I guess that you guys all assume that the subie was going to be towed by another vehicle. Whilst it is not common it is not unusual for some 4 wheel drives to be fitted with a front towball to permit manouvering large towed trailers into tight spaces without having to look backwards and to turn the steering opposite to the direction that you want to go.

I think he meant towbar, not towball. I had one put on my old jeep back in the day.

Please note the word TOWBAR in the original post

A Towbar is what goes on the front of a car being towed (or TOAD), it is not a hitch with a ball

If it was for towing then they probably have a drive shaft disconnect installed also. It also may have been for a bike rack, team cars often have bikes on the front, back and roof. I have also seen trucks with hitches on the front for maneuvering boat trailers in and out of the water but I doubt you could tow anything big enough with a OBW that you would have to be facing it to back it into the water.

You might say it's a hitch with a socket. ;-) Username munged by FixNews

Bobbie, et al:

Straight from the Subie website to your eyes -

I'm sure if you'd have looked in the car, you'd have seen a stick shift and a clutch pedal, making the owner one smart sonofagun, and not so crazy at all.

From

Towing Your Subaru

Subaru of America, Inc. recently changed its policy regarding towing of Subaru vehicles. The guidelines below apply to 1990 or later Legacy (and Outback) models, 1993 or later Impreza (and Outback) models and 1992 or later SVX models and all Forester models. (If your Subaru doesn't fit into any of these categories, please refer to your Owner's Manual.)

Manual Transmission Models All-Wheel Drive vehicles can be towed with all four wheels on the ground in neutral or with all four wheels off the ground on a trailer with the transmission in gear. Never attempt towing with only two wheels on the ground or two wheels on a dolly. Front-Wheel Drive vehicles can be towed with all four wheels on the ground in neutral or with the two front wheels off the ground.

Automatic Transmission Models All-Wheel Drive vehicles cannot be towed with any wheels on the ground. The vehicle can only be towed on a trailer with all four wheels off the ground and the transmission in park. Front-Wheel Drive vehicles can be towed with front wheels off the ground or all four wheels off the ground and transmission in park.