Ugly rear wing on WRX

I'm located in the U.S.A. amd my STi pushes 120 HP/LT, bone-stock. I consider that to be high-peformance by my standards. I would not quailfy any car as a "real" sports car if it didn't meet atleast the

100hp/Lt. requirement. It's just a poser. Any yes, the STi would easily hit 205 HP without the turbo.

I've driven plenty of Mustangs and they are just heavy unresponsive pigs. Don't get me wrong, I like the "sound" of a V8. But, that's not enough to make me buy one.

I can't agrue with you there. The STi did compromise some comfort for performance. But, it doesn't ride anywhere near as hard as the EVO. And I was impressed by the EVO. But, less impressed by the brutal ride and twitchy handling. And you have to drive it like you stole it to get any power out of it! The STi doesn't pretent to be your ''daddies Buick". The seats are firm, the handling is tight and the suspension doesn't wash out in the corners. I think you will almost always give up ride comfort for a firmer, stiffer suspension.

Now, you won't come away unimpressed by the manual on the STi. With the 6-speed you will always be in a gear that's appropriate for the situation. An automatic in the STi? Heaven forbid! I've never driven a Forester. So, I don't know how they handle.

Now see, that is the exact reason I bought the STi. It CAN fill all my needs. It's great in the winter, summer and can haul 4 people in comfort. It's a great little grocery-getter.

I did quite a bit of research before I bought my STi. And I looked at and drove pratically every car on your list. Yes, even the 350Z. But, after I took the STi for a test ride I fell in love/lust. It's power is intoxicating and it's got a grip like Spiderman. For the money, the STi was the best bang for the buck hands-down. Earlier this year Car and Driver did a "Sports car shoot out" with all the cars you mentioned. It had a STi on the front cover. I highly reccomend you buy this issue before you make your decision. Hey, it's great to dream! I still want a new Corvette ; - ) But, the STi was the most car for the money that I could find and afford. BlueSTi "Scary-Fast"

Yea, it must really suck to not live in the USA! I paid list price for my STi and that was $32,000 U.S. But, remember we get the 300HP STi here in America.

And as far as salary goes: You got me beat hands down! I gross $2300 a month (apox. 1,800 euros) . So, I only gross about 1400 dollars a month or roughly 1,100 euros. So, don't start feeling too bad about yourself! After all, I may have an STi but you make double MY wages! And on those wages I have a truck, 2 motorcycles, the STi and a house. And I have plenty of money to spare!

Still I would rather make half my wages drive my STi , and enjoy my personal freedoms than live anywhere else in the world.

New STi : $32,000 Living in the U.S.: Priceless!

BlueSTi "Scary-Fast"

My 15 year old motorcycle does close to 175 HP/l - bone stock. Surely anything "high performance" in today's technology should really do more. Anything less than 150 is just a poser.

I do not fancy to live in USA and didn`t say that I would or would not live there. I`ve been there many times and liked the place, however, USA is unreal - a worlds of its own, that does not have anything to do with "normal Europen lifestyle", this with all the respect (I like many things there a lot - like Hooters in Dallas). And please do not say that I haven`t see anything by only being in New York. I have travelled across the continent and been in Vegas, NY, LA, Dallas, Houston, Miami and also visited Canada in Montreal and Ottawa.

My point was, that with 1/4 of my nett salary, you have the same buying power. I do not know what you do, and thats not either the point, but what comes to your earnings, you still have more than 1/4 more to spend monthly. Please keep in mind that I compared my situation to a person in similar job there. Subaru WRX or STI is quite rare car here and the importer have just decreased the price by 15 K dollars. Still, it will not be a average car here, more of an leasing car trough corporates or for people who earn more than average person.

I recon that your salary is below the mid salary rate there? Mine is compared with only the top 3% of Finnish employees, meaning that not more than 3% of Finns earn like me or more. What would be the situation in USA, I would have 400m2 house in Miami Beach, drive Ferrari and have 2-3 spare cars. But, that isnt the case here - power of the money and the social infrastucture just aint the same, fortunately.

And I still didnt wanted STI. For me. its a compromise that needs at least

5 K more money after driving out from the shop, because of its restricted exhaust, gearbox ratio that isnt suitable for a car with only 265hp (europe) and suspension that is not working like it should. WRX was nice choice for me and with just 3.000 euros more I have all the power needed with it (280hp) and suspension that I like. Compared to STI, it will still be 9 K less and thats a lot of money at least here.

The regular WRX was about 5K cheaper than the STi but after driving them side-by-side. I just had to get the STi. It was worth the extra 5 grand to me. I like to drive but I don't particularly like to modify or work on my cars. A STD WRX with $5000 worth of performance upgrades would be a lot faster than my STi. I just liked the fact that I could drive it off the showroom floor "race" ready more or less. And here in the U.S.A. the STi is not all that common. I have only seen two. I live in a small town of about 30,000 people and I am the only one who has an STi in our entire town. There are several WRX's but no STi's. To be honest if I had it to do again, I would have bought the regular WRX.

BlueSTi

OUCH! That rules out the Viper, Corvette, Z06, Murcielago, NSX, Diablo (except the SE 30 Jota), Elise (Before the Yamaha transplant),

911 (Non-Turbo/GT).

I'd call every one of those a sports car.

Get over your American hating propaganda

I smell an idiot, but it's not coming from me. Let's see the REAL truth...

A big mac costs $2.50-3.50 depending on where you buy it in the U.S. Hmm... Who's the idiot?

Don't compare country taxes. Only an idiot would do so. Tax money is spent in many different ways in all countries. For instance, Canadians pay higher taxes, but those tax dollars go toward their health insurance that US workers have to pay for themselves.

Also, I said the WRX does indeed cost more elsewhere. It seems you have poor English comprehending skills.

FORGIVE is one word. You obviously are an idiot filled with anti-US propaganda who knows nothing of which he speaks and argues in a childish manor.

Your point is weak and wrong. Your idiotic thinking is comparing luxuries to cost of living. Fact is we pay much higher rent and real estate prices. The cost of going out to a meal here in the U.S. is substantionally more than what you think it is obviously because you think a BigMac costs $1. It's in fact 150%-350% more. Cost of living = Rent, food, clothing.

Mid salary rate in the U.S. is FAR less than what you think obviously again. I'm not sure on exact numbers, but well over 50% of the U.S. lives in "poverty." Minimum wage in the U.S. doesn't cover cost of living. If you make the minimum or even double the minimum, you can't afford to rent an apartment alone. 1% of the population lives as you dream the U.S. to be.

The "Euro" STi doesn't make 265 hp. It makes 300 hp with a 2.0 Turbo. Your Finnish import STi makes a claimed 265 hp. This could be a totally false number for some Fin law or rule, or it's restricted for pollution.

Big Mac in USA is $2.50 where I live. (Utah)

Oh yeah and it's smaller than it used to be too.

I agree. I make double the minimum wage right now and my wife has to work to make ends meet.

Hmm. My BMW is only around 82 hp/l at 90 hp and 1100cc. But it's got awesomely flat torque (being a boxer, after all) and does 0-60 in 4.1 seconds.

Don't you think the classification should be more power to weight?

Oh yeah, I also get 50 mpg (US) from it :-)

I believe you do not know still what you are talking about. I talk about one bigMac you about a meal (but one hamburger might be 1.50 $ => 2 times less than in Finland)..... I just visited USA and bought 1.000 dollars worth of clothes, why, because they are 50-70% cheaper there.

I knew this, but didnt wanted to spend a day telling you idiot what is the comparison behind my thinking, because I can not compare car prices on bases of "average income", you can afford it or not, but how much your money is worth in US or in Finland is different and that you somehow decline to understand. The rate is still 1 to 4, no matter where you come from or how much you earn...... cant you understand that??

I'm not sure on exact numbers, but well over 50% of the U.S. > lives in "poverty." Minimum wage in the U.S. doesn't cover cost of > living. If you make the minimum or even double the minimum, you can't > afford to rent an apartment alone. 1% of the population lives as you > dream the U.S. to be.

I know this and feel sorry for these people, but that is something your idiotic goverment has done in past few hundred years, when all system support is money, fane and fortune. I do not dream anything, Im talking about facts and figures, experiences and knowledge, the mid-class family comparison between US and Finland. So please understand, that Im talking about mid-class families......... Im also one, although I have a good salary, the real rich are something else, like in USA.

Noup, in UK there are several choices, from 265 to 340 tuned by prodrive with Subaru. All the other market (including very big Subaru market Germany) sell 265hp STI. In Finland we just dont have market for more than one choice and STI is very very rare care here, bought by either very rich people for playtoy or people who are car enthusiastics and have saved 10-15 years for car and updated it when possible. Think about this, year 2000, 300 pcs of Subaru sold in Finland TOTAL. I believe we have around 10-15 original STI`s today in Finland (just a guess). Here`s a link to Subaru Germany, if someone could open the PDF and help this freaking idiot how to read, so maybe he could understand it and realise that WRX has 225 and STI 265 like in Finland and in ALL the other countries here, except UK.

I really dont understand where this guy gets his information - maybe from Bush?

Nothing to do with hating USA - I love the place and come there at least

2-3 times a year. But needless to say, I hate stupid people, who believe that USA is the big and mighty without even visited other countries. This doesnt mean that I hate US people, in a contrarary, just the ones that clearly do not understand what the world is made of? I have many friends there, poor and rich.

I believe you have visited Finland or Scandinavia when you know so much about us? Europe.... well, maybe thats too much to ask yeeh.

"JaySee" kirjoitti viestissä news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com... > On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:16:06 GMT, "JP" wrote: >

So we pay 1.8 times more of it than you there ;-) Just looked the pricelist and its 3.50 euros for hamburger and 5 euros for a meal (6.10 dollars).

"Henry Paul" kirjoitti viestissä news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com... > Big Mac in USA is $2.50 where I live. (Utah) >

Well, have checked out the menu on a Finnish restaurant here in the US...holy shiite!

Well, than you have most sport bikes beat if that's true. The new yamaha R1 is a 135hp with a 1 Liter motor. You better get that old bike out to the track! And yes, most sport bikes will run me into the ground! Even my Honda ST1100 and ST1300 can run a faster 1/4 mile than my STi. Bikes have a huge advantage in power to weight ratio. That's why the STi stays in the driveway 90% of the time. I like riding the bikes better than driving the STi.

Chip '97 ST1100 '03 ST1300 '04 STi

BlueSTi "Scary-Fast"

Well, truth is you can't just take one facet of a cars specs and judge all other cars by it. I was really just throwing out a little "zebco". Sorry. Anyway, I think specs like the 1/4 mile times, 0-60 times, skid pad tests, and other factors all add up to what I would call the overall performance of a sports car.

IMO, any car that can break a 100 mph in the 1/4 is fast. And the

350Z has been shown to just hit a 100 mph in a 1/4 mile. So, there is no doubt it's fast. Just not as fast as the STi. The Evo is the only other car in a similar price range that offers the balanced package that you get in the STi. I think Subaru did good. They made a truly affordable, high-peformance vehicle. That an average Joe like me can afford.

Here is a site that I found and have used for a while that shows North Americas fastest production cars.

If you look at the top of the list you will see that the 1968 Plymouth 'Cuda with a 426 Hemi that ran 10.5 in the 1/4 at a 130 mph! Now, that's stinking fast! But you know what? My little STi would run circles around it at an AutoX. But in a straight line the 'Cuda would beat me by a full couple seconds. I personally like to carve canyons more than run in a straight line. But that's me. I guess what I'm trying to say is, as a total package the STi is one heck of a bargain. BlueSTi "Scary-Fast"

You know what? I did the math wrong. I only get 148 hp/l. Serves me right for doing math when under the influence of cold medication. Sorry for the unintentional misinformation.

I'm not likely to catch an R1 though. 15 years is a long time for suspension developments. That and the R1 has almost a 700cc displacement advantage on me...

The first time I rode the R1 it was pretty unimpressed with it. I kept thinking, "what's tall this hype about?" Then I got up to about

10,000 rpm and that sucker came to life! I have also had a chance to run a Hyabusa down the track. Talk about a monster! Dollar for dollar bikes give you much more performance. But bikes and cars are definitely an apples and oranges comprarison. Both are fun, but in different ways. STi = lots of fun in the snow. Motorcycle = no fun in the snow. BlueSTi "Scary-Fast"