What a P.O.S!

Hi, LSD is not permanent thing on any vehicle.

I'm pretty sure your other posts have done a good job of keeping us all up to date on your increasing displeasure at FHI in general and the new Imprezas specifically. How many more disappointing details on Subaru cars will be required for you to just give up completely and leave?

Carl

Actually VDC is a much better system than any LSD. John

What does that supposed to mean?

For FHI? Most definitely. It takes way more money to machine the housing and the LSD internals than to produce a $3 power robbing chip in taiwan. Also, by the same token, celery is much better than steak and pigs could fly given sufficient propulsion (something that previous generation of wrx provided an abundance of).

But it's good to see that FHI figured a way to deal with the weakening dollar. If you can't get away with upping the price you can surely remove some parts most people won't notice anyway. Especially if they've had too much of the above mentioned LSD.

I admit I admire the good sportsmanship of the Fuji Heavy Industries. To lend a hand to Mitsubishi Motors in the difficult times when the only model in the lineup is not covered with red ink is EVO takes some strong wisdom. I should wholeheartedly thank FHI for being a good corporate citizen and give Mitsubishi some breathing times. Domo aregato gazaimas FHI. My hat is off to you. Automotive industry and rally car enthusiasts appreciate your generosity, even if at the expense of your shareholders, who I'm sure see it the way you do.

Hi, Look into how LSD works, then you'll understand.

I think I do: it prevents wheel spin in situations when 2 front wheels lost traction and 1 of the rear wheels completely or fully lost traction. With LSD the other rear wheel will still get partially powered and on the new Subarus you'd have a wheelspin. Am I missing something? Is there some magical way that VDC would apply brakes in such a way that the power will be delivered to the wheels that have remaining grip?

The rear LSD distributes torque between the two rear wheels independently of what's going on with the front wheels.

This is, in fact, the point of VDC and has been around in various forms for more than a decade. VDC monitors the ABS sensors and can apply the brake of a spinning wheel to allow torque to reach the other wheel. VDC does other things, as well, but this is how it can electronically "lock" a differential.

This is certainly a more complicated traction solution than a purely- mechanical LSD and you can argue that it is comparatively less reliable. But it has a considerable weight advantage. Eventually, it should also cost less, once it becomes more commonly available.

Regards, Dave Riesz

You show great ignorance of the VDC system if you think it is only a $3 chip. It is actually a very sophisticated 'total' vehicle application. VDC controls the engine, transmission, differentials, and brake system and has components in each of these systems. It also includes accelerometers that allow the VDC system to determine what forces are acting on the vehicle, and in which direction. Along with the steering wheel sensor, the VDC system is able to determine if the vehicle is going in the direction the driver intends (or doesn't intend) for it to go. A simple visit to the Subaru website, or review of any Subaru service manual or technical manual will reveal to you how much more than a '$3 chip" the system really is. John

What's to stop somebody installing a LSD on their car after they purchase it and if it's really so great a necessity why not just do this? Any chances a LSD could throw off the proper functioning of VDC?

~Brian

There are no aftermarket rear axle LSD that I see on cobbtuning. Do you think lsd from a totalled 07 wrx would fit?

that could very well be one of the reasons why subaru converted a "most wheels drive" car into an "any wheel drive".

I guess we'll see in a few years if dollar recovers at all. If they put LSD back in to be competitive with the upcoming WRX slayer from Fuso than they figured how to make the two compatible. If not then they'll be just another "me too" any wheel drive car maker.

I gave it some thought over the day: I don't think they can make LSD to work with VDC. The latter P.O.S. can break any wheel at any time. Suppose you have to do sustained brake application of a rear wheel while some power is routed to the rear axle thru the center diff: the other wheel would receive power and due to the nature of LSD the fluid would thinken to get the clutch engaged to drive the other wheel (which is locked by VDC). Potentially, if the wheel stays locked for long, the grease in the rear diff could overheat (and something would fail, I suspect rather spectacularly and expensively as it typically does on Subarus).

I see at least 3 ways this could develop:

1. Subaru busily R&Ding a solution involving an electric clutch pack for the rear diff or something else cheaper than the STI rear diff.
2. Subaru does not do shit about the rear diff and the cars blessed with VDC (minus the STI) get "any wheel drive" to stay.
3. Installs STI rear diff on the pedestrian WRX (one less incentive to buy STI; more money out of FHI pocket: ain't gonna happen)

They are not hurting in 08 impreza selling department according to dec 2007 sales report on subdriven so I would not be surprised if they just keep sitting on their asses until the sucker supply dwindles down as savvy buyers flock to Mitsubishi (me thinks this is not likely to happen any time soon)

I have a sudden jolt of creativity. Don't you know I don't give shit about political correctness? I expect some respect from FHI for the intelligence of their clientele (and prospective clientele) and since I'm not getting any I feel I'm entitled to opine (loudly).

fixed

Carl

No, but every single Merc owner I'm aware of has had problems of one sort or another with their vehicles. Parts are needlessly expensive, the engineering is needlessly complex, and you end up forking out huge dollars primarily for the symbol on the front of your car.

If VDC were superior then it would be on the higher-end rally cars. It's not, both ways. (This is something which the OP is sitting there agog about I'm sure wondering why you guys are defending VDC..)

Except for the 2008 STi, which has VDC *and* LSD all around still. Hrm, that's interesting. Must be that VDC law thing.

Oh well. Hopefully there's a switch to turn it off somewhere.

Not so. If the rally drivers need something like VDC, they would have it. Besides, Launch Control (which they DO have) is a similar principle.

That's a matter of opinion. Every single Mercedes owner I know of loves their cars and wouldn't drive anything else.

They should buy Subarus. Or Toyotas.