Where to get a Subie serviced?

I take mine to the dealer until it is out of warranty. If I do service like an oil change or filter replacement myself or have someone else service it, I document thouroughly.

This was important a few years ago when my '03 Forester blew the head gasket at only 40,000 miles when a couple of years out of warranty.

SOA reimbursed me for a little over a third of the repair cost but wanted to see my documentation.

Now completely out of warranty, I go to a trusted garage nearby.

You have to be careful with dealer and only get service required by the manual. Mine stuck me with a 30,000 mile engine flush which apparently was not needed.

My wife with an '08 Forester only goes to the dealer. Won't even let me change the oil. This is OK with me as my doing it does not save much money but I hate to sit around waiting for the car where she does not mind.

Personally I would take a car to the dealer or dealer perferred service centre since they SHOULD know what they're doing, be more reliable, and have ready access to the appropriate parts ... but they can also be more expensive.

Patty Winter wrote:

Ask the shop if they hire master mechanics. I know a couple near me that they only hire master qualified mechanics. Ask if they are ASE certified (or check here:

ASE tests are cheap (when compared to the costs of some of the software certification tests that I've had to take). They expire so the mechanic has to take them again to show continued experience and also with new technologies. For a shop to claim they are ASE certified means their mechanics must've taken and passed the tests, so ask if ALL of their mechanics are ASE certified or if they only rely on one or two to the shop's claimed ASE certification. Just be aware that many good shops don't bother with ASE certification (since these are written tests, not on-hands trainer supervised real-world tests). I use a car shop that hires all master mechanics and they're not listed at the ASE site; however, I've yet to toss any car their way that they couldn't handle, plus they are ASE certified despite the ASE site not listing them (apparently you only get about 20 hits in their search result instead of all within the specified distance), and they don't let you omit the non-public shops (those that do not offer services to the public). Twould be better if they let you specify a shop to check they are ASE certified. In fact, they'll figure out ways to fix my car that would be cheaper than then "assembly replace" style of dealership shops (e.g., they replaced a spring inside the steering column for the turn signal instead of charging me to replace the whole damn assembly as the dealership would - because this shop knows specialists that remanufacture parts and will do single jobs). Another shop I use (for less than engine rebuilds) burnished a rust ring off the slider rod that caused the front left brake to stick on my Subie that gets stored for long periods which make it get really hot from dragging rather than replacing the whole caliper. The dealership screwed up a whole-exhaust replace so I had to come back twice (yep, they screwed up the 2nd time, too). The next time I hand picked a muffler shop (not a national chain one) where I stood under the raised car and discussed just exactly what they would do and the materials they would use and it was far cheaper than the dealership (several hundred dollars) and I was very pleased with their work. The first shop I trust to work on just about everything. They actually are often near the same cost as the dealership but their work has been exemplary. This is the one that hires all master mechanics at each of their 3 local-only shops. The one that did the rust ring job on the brake is good to a point: the first one can blueprint my engine but not the second one, but the 2nd one is cheaper on many jobs, like brakes, oil sensor, and the "easier" work.

Do the same for when you ask about master mechanics: find out if they only have 1 or 2 that are master mechanics and the rest are not. I went to a shop where they had to work on something but, gee, the master mechanic already left at 5 PM (when I was scheduled and showed up) and took his tools with him. Seems most shops don't buy all the tools required for all jobs to be performed by their mechanics. The mechanics have to accumulate their own tool, so if the ones with the tools are gone then they can't work on your car.

Ask them if they do complete coverage of all repairs (except body work perhaps) of your make and model and year. There isn't much that is unique on a Subie that most *good* shops won't know how to work on.

You could take it to the Subie dealer if you don't mind paying top dollar; however, not even they always hire only master mechanics. Dealership mechanics screw up, too. Customer perception is why they get away with charging for more although often they accumulate experience for their mechanics is less than another non-dealership shop. For the same price Dell charges for their pre-builts, I can build a computer with better quality parts with better performance and other specs; however, obviously no one knows "my brand" so I can't charge the same (less) as does Dell who builds on specs rather than longevity, stability, and robustness.

Is this your first car? If not, you should already have a history with some car shops and gain experience with them to know if they're good. Just remember that there is nothing special about a dealership's repair shop. They are operated as a separate unit and are simply another choice for a repair shop; however, because of the association with the dealership and buyers that tend to think they must be better than other car shops then they charge more (like Sony charges more for their electronics simply due to brand recognition and customer perception). In fact, my ASE-certified all-master mechanic shop can do more than the dealership shop says it will do.

The electronic diagnostic system is pretty standard throughout all cars, it's called OBD-II (On-Board Diagnostics) in North America, EOBD in Europe, and naturally JOBD in Japan.

Most system faults can be read off by a standard serial connector which you can even purchase for your laptop. I got one myself, cost me a grand total of $10. ;)

Yousuf Khan

Unfortunately, it looks like the only ASE-certified shop near me only services Bimmers and Mercedes. :-( It was a good idea, though.

No, but at least they're specifically trained on Subies! I just read an article in SOA's magazine about how some mechanics mistake the differential drain plug for the engine oil drain plug, thus neatly draining out all the differential oil and then overfilling the engine oil system. Oops.

I'll probably take my Outback to a Subaru dealership at least the first couple of times. There's a dealership just down the street from where I got my bicycle last year, so I can drop off the bike for its semiannual free checkup, take the car to the Subaru dealer, have them drive me home, then reverse the process later. :-)

No,it's my sixth.

My former mechanic retired a few years ago, and I no longer work near the place that had been servicing my Legacy, so that isn't a convenient place to take the Outback. I found a really good place for my Porsche, and I could take the Outback there, too, but it takes an hour to get home from there on the light rail. So I'm hoping to find someplace that's either within easy biking/public transit distance from my home, or that will drive me home and pick me up when the car is ready, as the Subaru dealership will.

Patty

Okay. Do the fault codes vary a lot from car to car, or are they pretty standard?

That sounds intriguing. Where does one connect it? For some strange reason, the Outback's user manual doesn't seem to tell owners where to hook it up. :-)

Patty

It's not as easy as just hooking up a cable. You need the appropriate software to properly use the incoming data. The proper software is expensive. In some cases there are probably free versions around on the internet (or at least claim that's they are such software), but would you really trust using something an unknown person has created? Just look at the mess Windows and Android is in with malware, let alone getting it anywhere near your car.

Well, duh. :-)

Depends on your definition of "expensive," I suppose. I found a nice-looking program earlier today that's only $50.

BTW, I also (sort of) found the answer to my question. The connector should be somewhere under the dash on the driver's side. I haven't gone out to the car to look yet.

Patty

A shop that "only hires master mechanics" will never PRODUCE a master mechanic. Where do "Master Mechanics" come from? They don't hatch from an egg fully qualified. EVERY "master mechanic" started out as an apprentice.

A good shop will have a good balance of masters and apprentices - 3:1 works very well in my experience - and the apprentice will be properly supervised by the masters. Works best in a straight time shop too - in the "average" flat rate shop none of the "masters" wants to be saddled with an apprentice because it slows him down, costing him money. A salaried or straight time "shop foreman" works well in this situation - or even a "working service manager".

When I was at the dealership I was a "working service manager" and my guys were all on straight time - so my apprentices learned a lot and turned into VERY GOOD master mechanics. Two went on to teach automotive mechanics, and one became one of the top quality control techs at the Cambridge Toyota plant.

All 3 of them, before they finished their apprenticeships, were better mechanics than any of the "master mechanics"who applied for the job when I advertised for mechanics.

I had a few customers who thought they had to insist on only licenced "master" mechanics working on their vehicles - I told them I'd be glad to do it for them, but they would have to pay a premium for the "privilege" or they would have to leave the car until I had a licenced man who was totally free - without an apprentice to supervise.

Wasn't long until they found the apprentices were more than capable of doing the routine work, and the "masters" were always there to look after the more difficult and critical work.

It depends on your definition of "proper". I meant the real software from the manufacturer, rather than the dodgey, virus-ridden rubbish from some bedroom hacker. :-)

I think most of them are around that area, in some models it is at least partly because it makes it eaiser for race car teams to plug in and use in-car systems during the tinkering phases.

I remember reading a while back that some cars have (or planned to have) wireless access to the system ... which sounds even more risky. Again, it's mostly for the race circuits so the tech can get information during a pitstop without needing to physically plug in.

Nope, they grow on Master Mechanic Trees, which are mainly farmed in Asia these days. ;-)

They may not be termed "Master Mechanic", but a fully certified and qualified mechanic can graduate from a technical college. These are better than an apprentice in the old sense of the term (direct from leaving high school and starts by washing the cars, making the coffee, etc.)

Such schemes are good for the industry and even good for society (in terms of youth employment, etc.), but it may not be so good for the customer or the service centre's insurance fees ... depending on how well the apprentices are supervised.

Someone I know had their car serviced near the begining of the year, and apparently the apprentice used the wrong fluid and caused problems with the automatic transmission. :-(

The North American OBD2 spec requires the plug to be within 8 inches of the steering column and to the left, if memory searves me correctly. Not every manufacturere follows the rules to the letter.

A smartass young twerp who has just graduated from technical college is not as "good" a mechanic as one who has gone through a proper apprenticeship because he lacks the important "experience". The big problem is he "knows it all" already so doesn't have to learn.

A "properly supervised" apprentice - going through a 2 1/2 to 5 year apprenticeship, gains a lot of experience in his or her progression to becoming a "licenced mechanic" - as is the term here in Canada.. Until he gets his licence he is an "apprentice".

95% are pretty standard industry codes. The remaining 5% could be proprietary from mfg to mfg. But those remaining proprietary codes are also loaded into the OBD database on a laptop, so you won't have to look them up.

The connector on your car is usually located inside the cabin, usually near the driver's knees under the dash, sometimes it could be in the center armrest (on Volvos), or any number of other places, but usually near the front of the car, and usually inside the passenger compartment.

Here's an example of what an OBD connector looks like:

And here's an example of an OBD cable:

The above cable is a 9-pin RS232 serial-OBD cable, but modern ones will have USB instead of serial, while the OBD side remains the same. Of course, I'm sure you know how to plug a USB cable into a laptop.

Yousuf Khan

Actually, I've found the free version of the software is the most reliable one of all! It's called Scantool.net and the software is not just merely free, it's Open Source! You know Open Source software, like Linux, Firefox, Open Office, Apache, etc., etc. Usually they're just as good as commercial software, with fewer bugs too.

Really, the automotive diagnostics codes are no big deal, they are read in by a serial connector in a standard binary format. Paying hundreds of dollars for a dedicated engine code reader is so last century!

Yousuf Khan

Boy, you really have a hate on for free things. Anyways, read my previous response to you about this.

OBD is not for race-car teams, it's only for standard passenger cars. First of all, most race car teams have a totally different proprietary system, which uploads data to their computers wirelessly, in real-time! Also the OBD is by no means detailed enough for a race car team, since it mainly just records engine fault codes, which is basically there to aid a mechanic on a shop floor to narrow down the specific location of a problem. A race car team would want real-time info for not just engine stuff, but also transmission stuff, suspension stuff, wheel & tire stuff, etc. None of that is covered in the OBD codes.

Yousuf Khan

In most cases "you get what you pay for" ... plus downloading unknown software from unknown websites is asking for trouble.

Of course, not all free software is horrible or dodgey.

I don't know if it's the same as "OBD" or not, but on the race cars and regular street-legal sportscars, you can connect the computer and alter various settings to tweak the car's performance. Exactly what you tweak of course depends on what performance you want - racing, drifting, rallying, etc.

So you've never used Firefox or Thunderbird? Never used a website running the LAMP suite (Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP)?

OBD is mainly read-only, they read in error codes, sensor data, etc. You can't use it to reprogram ECU's. Reprogramming ECU's will require different connectors, located elsewhere.

Yousuf Khan

Actually the OBD 2 connector IS used to reprogram the ECU on some vehicles that support reflash. Not nearly all OBD2 ECUs can be reflashed though - and it takes special software (and hardware)