Spongy Brakes - Air - Bleeding - How to tell?

Hello. I've been up and down different info resources online and even to a mech or two. So, here's what I need to know:

Let's say the mech has checked everything in the brake system and had found nothing wrong. BUT, the brakes are spongy and the pedal needs to be depressed all the way for a complete stop. Worse during slow driving and stopping than anything else.

How else apart from actually driving the car can the Mech come to the conclusion that the brake line has to be bled? (eg, there's air in there?).

I'd truly appreciate any input regarding this. Thanks in advance.

Reply to
Cyber
Loading thread data ...

Find a mechanic that knows what he is doing. The one you are talking to apparently doesn't.

Reply to
Woody

Hehe, that was the point of my coming online here. Because I'm coming across too many idiots who don't know, or are money hungry crooks, or whatever else. The story of my life!

The Point mind you is that everyone everywhere says that most likely the car needs to be bled. But this guy at one spot is telling me that they checked everything and there's nothing wrong. BUT THEY DIDN'T DRIVE THE DARN CAR.

And another place I haven't been to yet is quoting me lots of money because he claims that bleeding it requires a heck of alot of work.

I just need to know if it's actually possible to tell that the car doesn't need bleeding just by looking into it?

Reply to
Cyber

Is The question -> Can someone tell there is air in the brake system without taking it for a test drive? The answer is a definite Yes. If you are trying to ask something else then - I don't know.

-jim

Reply to
jim

That's brakes that need to be bled if all other causes are eliminated. Now IF I knew the make and model I might be able to tell you other common causes for this condition.

Well, he has ONE advantage over us. He knows what make and model the car is!

Don

formatting link

Reply to
Don

Pump the brakes a bunch of times. If they firm up and quit going to the floor then you have air in the system.

Reply to
AZ Nomad

Or has a bad master cylinder...

Reply to
Woody

It's a Suzuki Sidekick, '95 (4WD).

'and thank you very much for your input!

Reply to
Cyber

uhuh! I've seen that. Did it the other day (not a bunch of times) but a coupla times and saw a difference. Don't recall how long it was before it got bad again.

Mind you, the fella who's so convinced that there's nothing wrong is the one who sits up front taking in customers. He's not the mech, you know?

Reply to
Cyber

If someone told me I had air in the brakes I would wonder just 'how' did that air get there? It can't be created, it has to have been introduced somehow.

Now if you were out rock crawling or ravine climbing and the fluid in the brake master cylinder was really low or if you had it rubber side up, then air could have gotten in, otherwise....

Can you pump it up? One sign of air is the ability to pump the pedal and the pedal comes way up.

If the pedal is consistently low and solid feeling, I think that the emergency brake adjuster in the rear shoes is in need of a manual adjustment or the rear shoes were worn out. If the emergency brake grabs right at the end of it's travel or doesn't grab, then I would look at the back brakes first.

If the pedal holds, but sinks under your foot, the Master cylinder is bad unless there is a leak.

If you hit it fast and it grabs, but when you hit it slow it sinks, I think Master.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: N>
Reply to
Mike Romain

Look and see if the pads are wearing tapered. Happens ALL THE TIME to Hondas -- that's why i asked make and model. Particularly if you are in salt country, the caliper slides get seized. Most of the pedal is used up bringing the unevenly worn pads into alignment with the rotor and by the times there is significant brake application your pedal is on the floor. Cure is new pads and clean and lube all caliper slide surfaces and pins. There is synthetic grease made just for this purpose. This is an important part of a brake job that never gets done atr BrakeCheck.

You can check for rear drum brakes out of adjustment by setting the parking brake and seeing if the pedal improves.

Don

formatting link

Reply to
Don

There's a mech down the block whom I'd trusted up until now. I had NO problems with the brakes beforehand 'cept for the meshing noise (which tells me what? Bad Brake Pads). So I take it to him and obviously he did a piss-poor job. Days later I returned the car to be bled again and I'm convinced (for reasons I won't get into) this guy did nothing, OR doesn't know what the heck he's doing.

'and so thus, I do not plan on returning there again.

Reply to
Cyber

change the master cylinder if you want to fix your problem ,if you do not you will contenualy having sponges brakes as it been mentioned be for....

Reply to
alan &marge pepper

A bad master cylinder won't firm up; it'll keep going to the floor.

Reply to
AZ Nomad

and change the booster if that doesn't fix it and replace the slave cylinders if you're still getting air in the system after that, change the brake lines.

Or better yet, see where the air is getting in and just fix that.

Reply to
AZ Nomad

He said he just had a brake job (what that means exactly who knows) Apparently he had a scraping noise and some work was done and he no longer has the noise (at least he no longer complains of that). Now he has a new problem of a low or soft pedal. He has returned twice complaining about the problem and apparently nothing changed. So if there is air in the line that is not a big mystery. What his question is I'm not quite sure. It sound like he may have gone somewhere else and they told him it was air in the lines and he is not satisfied with that answer.

-jim

Reply to
jim

Or fixing the binding caliper slide pins or fix the misadjusted or misassembled rear brakes?

Don

formatting link

Reply to
Don

Hmmm, thanks jim, close but not yet.

The only people who've told me it's probably air in the line are folks online of which there've been many elsewhere along with one or two folks here. Problem is I'm tired of playing darned 20 questions with this guy at the shop who probably doesn't know what he's talking about. My question was, HOW or IF its possible to see that air is NOT needed just by checking things and not actually driving the car. They're convinced there's nothing wrong with my car at all! Yet all these clowns need to do is drive it slowly around a few times to see what I'm talking about.

Anyhow, I've been invited to return for them to do exactly that and probably play another set of 20 questions all over again which I'm simply feeling quite peachy about (sense the sarcasm?) N'other words, they talk to me like I'm a friggin idiot.

So I thank everyone here for at least trying to help me. Next time I DO go there, I'll find my way over to the mech which I've always been able to do at this place and speak with him personally.

Problems like these (of which I've had quite a few in the past) usually entail my walking in expecting the other guy (mech or whomever) to know what they're talking about. 'and so, who am I to question what they say unless I'm armed with information of my own, you know? Thus the reason for my visiting these forums to pick the minds of generous folks like yourselves. :-)

Reply to
Cyber

probably too late for suggestions, but if the problem is worst when u are driving slow, maybe it is a leak in the booster or the master cylinder? Some brakes rely on engine vacuum, which is lower when u are cruising around slowly. If they are leaking air into the system via broken vacuum it could be possible this air is ending up in the brake lines some how

Reply to
Josh

Ok see if this is little closer -> YOU ARE A MORON.

What you are trying to do is get a particular answer without a fair hearing of the facts. You are not going to reveal what work was done on the brakes. You are not going to reveal whether the issue you are now calling a problem existed before the work was done and if that was part of the work that was agreed upon. You are not going to reveal what the mechanic's recommendation is/was. For instance, he may have told you you need back brakes done also, but you refused to have that done. Now you think you can whine about it on Usenet and somehow that it is going fix your car - what a moron. The biggest problem for any body trying to help you is since you are a moron one can't even assume there IS any thing at all wrong with your car. What is known is that the pedal feels different and you notice that most at low speed. The stopping capability of the car may have improved tenfold, but since you are a moron your not going to mention that.

You are a FRIGGIN IDIOT. And you are on the internet looking for other friggin idiots to support your point of view. If you want a second opinion take it to another shop the internet is no place to ask your question, because you cannot present a lucid set of facts and ask a lucid question.

I'll bet.

Oh OK now that you know it must be the air jumping over from the brake booster to the brake lines your all set.

-jim

Reply to
jim

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.