I would consider elevated levels of ZDDP a valid, positive reason to sell uncertified oils. However, I agree with you re: Amsoil because they don't ever explicitly state that their oils *would* meet API requirement if it weren't for containing high levels of ZDDP or other anti-wear additives.
Red Line has spec sheets on their oil available online; if I feel like spending lots of money on a expensive yet uncertified oil, guess which I would pick?
nate
That thread refers only to the cost for the license to use the starburst. It's not the cost of the testing. To expand on why the certification costs so much... To certify an oil some of the tests that must be run require you to run the oil in a specific engine. The last article I read indicated that just to buy the engine is something like 10K+. Then you have to pay the techs to run the tests. And that's just one test of many. I don't recall all the details but the bottom line was that if you wish to sell a FULL LINE of engine oils that are all certified you could wind up with a $250,000 bill by the time you are done. The whole test sequence takes months to run and each different oil has to be run. So your 5w20 and 5w30 and 10w30 and
15w30 and then your same oils in synthetic formulation also, all have to be run thru all the test sequences. And if one of them fails the tests you have to reformulate it and rerun the tests. Then if a couple years go by and your base oil supply source changes you may well have to run all the tests again because you may have to reformulate your oils.
The different viscosity grades can be certified by running one through the tests then "reading across" to other viscosity grades.
If a formulation is certified then the base oil is changed, the new formulation can be certified with an abbreviated (and much less expensive) series of tests, often without any additional engine testing at all.
This is a common problem and complaint in the chemical industry. It can cost a ton of money to run through a certification series. If we did all the tests that we could think of to try to avoid every problem conceivable, we would never get a product to market and would go broke.
Unfortunately, this is also how some of the really big mistakes (in chemicals and medicines) slip through unnoticed.
There's a little bit of horseshit in that list. Just a tad. Unless it's just an opinion. In that case, opine away, be ye the ass- covering lawyergroup assigned by Toyota USA to write the list in the first place, or be ye those who believe it is 100% factual.
Toyota MDT in MO
Bought a new 1957 Ford F100. Used Texaco or Conoco 10/30 oil. Sold truck at
13100 miles. person that bought it used same brands. At 195000 had to change the valve seals. Engine still in good condition. This was a 6 cylinder. It was always run hard and fast. That oil suited me and the second owner.I have been using regular Valvoline oil for years.I think any well known American brand name of oil is just as good. cuhulin ............................................................ A man needs only two tools in life.WD-40 and Duct Tape.If it doesn't move and it should,use the WD-40.If it moves and it shouldn't,use the Duct Tape. ............................................................
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