auto tune up

Main Entry: 2gouge Function: transitive verb Inflected Form(s): gouged; goug·ing

1 : to scoop out with or as if with a gouge 2 a : to force out (an eye) with the thumb b : to thrust the thumb into the eye of 3 : to subject to extortion or undue exaction : OVERCHARGE

Well, now you have heard both sides of the justification controversy.

You made the mistake for not talking to the mechanic or shop foreman and getting an estimate.

If you hadn't liked the price, you could have walked away. You can always get a second opinion or estimate.

I still think this was excessive, but it is 'lærepenger', or 'tuition'. You have learned a lesson. Maybe next time you will have a better feel for how to handle it.

Actually, NAPA shows the Iridium plugs at $18.00 ea. and the Platinums at $27.00 ea. list price of course...

Is the boot available separate? I looked a the Belden wire set, it is indeed a 3 wire set. No separate boot on the short side.

Point being, everyone thinks this is as easy and cheap as tuning up a 2.2 Chrysler. It isn't.

Makes sense, the FF looked a bit low$$.

All I know is he wrote back thanking me and said he passed the letter on to the chief of police. I assunme mayors don't like crooks giving their towns bad names. Of course this *was* a muffler chain.

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From what I heard the standard is a scam. If a mechanic can't do a job in half the standard time he's out the door.

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That doesn't always work. I was at a parts store today to see about getting my battery tested. Before taking the battery out of the car I went in and asked about the test. I was told it tells how much life is left in the battery and the test would not harm the battery. A few minutes and I was back in the store with the battery. A different guy hooked it up to the tester. (All it does is display the cold cranking amps and then start charging the battery.) The display said it would be ready in 32 minutes so the guy walked back to the counter and said it would take another 32 minutes. I asked how much life was left in the battery and he said it doesn't say. After waiting about 5 minutes I asked why the test took so long. He said it was charging the battery. I asked if it would be okay to put the battery back in the car. He said sure so I left with my battery. Asking beforehand doesn't always work. :)

What usually worksfor me is calling a few places and comparing estimates.

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Well, I would call the dealer then :) I think our customer pay prices are about $10 for platinum and about $16 - $20 for Iridium. This is in a high rent area as well. These are Toyota-boxed ND plugs which are harder to find in the aftermarket than NGK, but both are great products. Anyhoo, I think Napa's site is in error because their price difference doesn't make sense an any level.

I can check on that, I think they do but can't remember. D'oh...

Only the uninformed or religiously anti-mechanic. Often one in the same.

Toyota MDT in MO

Nope, you're right, William, it doesn't always work, but it beats the hell out of not asking.

i can understand why you seem to think that the cost you encountered was too great.no one likes surprises except on their birthday. you should have had the common sense to obtain an estimate before repairs were made. if you were my customer then you would have had to sign an estimate before these repairs were made. i have researched the prices you quoted, keeping in mind the year and make of vehicle, the condition of the vehicle, and the general locale of where the repairs were made and i found them to be in line with what one should expect. even when an experienced tech. looks up labor for a specific repair, there are other contributing factors that can cause additional time to be added to a repair..i.e...rusted or broken bolts, removal of other items for access,mud, etc...labor rates are high when viewed by the consumer. you should be aware that in order for the tech. to be working on your car , his overhead is a big part of his labor rate. shop rent or payment,insurance, electricity, water, TOOLS!!!! AND ALSO TRAINING CLASSES WHICH ALMOST EVERY TECH I KNOW ATTENDS A FEW TIMES EACH YEAR. $65-95 per class.......you didnt mention any problems after this work was performed so apparently you received good service. remember that in the future, COMMUNICATION IS THE KEY. AN HONEST TECH. IS NOT AFRAID TO LET YOU KNOW THINGS UP FRONT.....WE DON'T LIKE SURPRISES EITHER...

Timing chain stretch affects VALVE timing. Valve timing was not checked in those tuneups. I was referring to ignition timing.

Other than Pro-Stock hemi's with crank triggered ignition, pretty much everything else in that era had a distributor that ran off of the camshaft. Chain stretch affected ignition timing.

Da distributor bone is connected to da camshaft bone. Da camshaft bone is connected to da timing chain bone. Now hear da word of da Lawd.

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No, I was too small then. But I did work on some cars from the early 70's.

Yes. On most of my cars the process was/is as follows:

Jack up car and remove wheel. loosen one bolt and pivot the caliper up. remove old pads and install new pads. push piston back into caliper flip caliper back down and replace bolt replace wheel.

On an Alfa Romeo I use to own the process was even simpler because you did not have to move the caliper out of the way. The pads pulled out through an opening in the caliper body.

Rears are usually just as simple with the exception of having to screw in the piston instead of pushing it in. NBD.

Yes.

------------ Alex

With practice, air tools and a lift, I too can change disc brakes in very little time.

------------- Alex

Don's reference was in regard to back when disc brakes first started to appear. Just thought I'd point that out.

So, you do nothing regarding cleaning and lubeing any slide pins and/or bushings, nothing regarding removal of accumulated rust/metallic pad dust that has fused itself too the spots where the pads and/or caliper slide? I take it you are not located anywhere in or near the rust belt or where there is any appreciable precipitation because your method of a brake job by the standards necessary where I'm located would amount to repeated come-backs, short brake pad life and a long line of dissatisfied customers.

Just did a 97 Aspire the other day with that set up, I still had to force the caliper bushings loose, disassemble the bushings and rubbers, clean out the accumulated rust from the bushing bores and reassemble with new bushing hardware and the proper lubricant. Where the inner pad rides, I had to get in there with a file and clean back down to the parent metal. Oh, did I mention that all of the front brake components had to be pried off/apart because they were bound up with rust so bad? The previous brake jobs had been performed by the customers husband, evidently he didn't have a clue WRT what steps need to be taken to perform a proper brake pad replacement considering the extremely short life they were getting from his brake jobs.

I hope you live in an arid climate.

The idea -isn't- to see how fast you can do it. The idea -is- to see how close you can come to making the brakes function as new, as they're supposed to.

Which could be compensated in 10 seconds by tweaking the ignition timing... leaving the cam timing still incorrect but the ignition timing correct.

I checked this as promised and the boot is only available with the coil pack. My guess on that was wrong :-( but my price guess on a coil pack was dead on -- $90 list.

Toyota MDT in MO

Oops, left that out. If the caliper slides smoothly, then I only lube it. If it is not smooth, then I see what needs to be done. Most of the time it just needs a little grease. This add very little time to the brake job.

I'm in NY. I'm my own customer, so I am a repeat customer. :) Brake pad life is not unusual for the type of car I drive.

No problems for me so far. I'm not sure what you mean by caliper bushing, sounds like the piston to me. I just check the pistons for pitting and make sure the boot is in place and intact. Again, takes very little time to do it. Maybe I have been lucky but I never had to replace a boot or piston on a caliper that I had been working on from the beginning. This has not always been the case on cars I bought used.

No, we get rain and snow.

----------- Alex