Priced on a 'tune-up' (replacing spark plugs and wires)

Get the spark plugs changed by them and change the wires yourself. If you've ever plugged in a lamp, you can change the spark plug wires. This of course is based on the assumption that the wires are in plain sight, not routed every which way in some cars.

Let's break down your bill.. Bosch platinum plugs- $2/ea. They're charging you 1 1/2 times more what it'd cost you to purchase yourself.

3/4ths of an hour labor to change plugs? That's pretty steep. For most cars where the plugs are right in front, it'd take me less than 20 minutes for all of them..

Spark plug wire set. Purchased by yourself, $40. 1 hour labor to change plug wires? Again, that's pretty steep, especially since half of the job is already done by changing the spark plugs.

Shop supplies.. Hmm... a little bit of dielectric grease that already comes with the plug wires.. I can't imagine anything that they'd use to change the plug wires or spark plugs that would amount to $6. All I can think of is that goes to the cost of disposing your spark plugs and wires (that's not ever charged to the customer, it's already included in the cost).

70k miles out of a set of original plug wires isn't too bad. I've seen many cars have to get them replaced sooner and a huge majority of cars go without ever changing the spark plug wires.

I'd say the whole thing should cost you about $150 at the most at a repair shop.

plugs $8 + 100% markup = $16 wires $40 + 100% markup = $80

1 hour labor $50. total = $146

-Bruce

On 11 Feb 2004 17:30:13 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Joe) wrote:

|Let me start off by saying I enjoy lurking around in this group and |really appreciate all the advice I get whenever I post. | |Anyway, I've got a secondhand 1998 Chevy Prizm LSI with 99,800 miles |on it. I bought it used at 73k, and have put mostly interstate miles |on it. I saw a coupon in the mail for a 'tune-up special' for $29.99. | It was basically for replacing spark plugs and checking timing and |idle. Since my car manual says the plugs should be replaced every 30k |miles, I figured thirty bucks wasn't a bad deal for all that. | |I got to the store (Tires Plus) and presented the coupon. The guy |took my info (I normally get my routine oil changes there) and said |they'd look at it and see if it needed anything else. I waited about |30 minutes and they came back saying it was in good shape- just needed |new plugs and new spark plug wires. They gave me a price of $196 for |replacing the plugs and the wires, which came as quite a shock to a |putz like me who came in with a $30 coupon special. I told them I'd |think about it and left without having them do anything. | |Question: what is a good price for having the plugs swapped out? Do |spark plug wires need replacing often? My manual says nothing about |the wires ever needing to be replaced. | |Here's the breakdown of the bill: |Spark Plug wires set - $99.00 |Labor - $42.50 |Bosch Platinum Plugs - $19.96 |Labor - $51.00 |Shop supplies - $6.24 | |Does this seem extraordinarily high to anyone?

The labor does. I work for FREE! ( on my own car that is )

Do 1 wire/plug at a time, and you shouldn't get any mixups.

Lg

Odds are there is nothing wrong with your wires. It's a common revenue generator to say they need replacing when they really don't. The truth is likely that no one gets the $29 tune-up. They just use the coupons to get you into the store. Those Bosch plugs are 2ea and that's probably all you need. If you did need wires, they are probably $30 or so. You might want to invest in a cheap tool set and put the plugs in yourself.

-jim

Joe wrote:

Wholy Krap Batman.... Buy the plugs and change the wires yourself. Just remember to change one wire at a time so you don't get the firing order wrong and you'll be set. For my jeep at most it's 2.00 per plug x 6 = 12.00 plus 30.00 to 40.00 for OEM wires. Tops it's 40.00 to 50.00 plus tax.

I remember when I first bought my jeep used. In the first two weeks it died and so I had it towed to a shop. They diagnoised it as the MCU (computer) and the charge was over or about 350.00 to fix it, something like 200.00 for the part and 150.00 labor to install it. I said nah, push it back out on the road and we'll see if I can do it later. Went to the local parts store and got the MCU for 100.00. If I was smarter at the time I could have gotten it for much less, like 25.00 to 50.00. This thing plugs into the harness like a house light plugs into the wall socket. Easy peasy. Took me all of 2 minutes and I was done.

To be fair, the diagnosis is worth some money and I offered to pay them for it but they declined. Next time I called for a diagnosis they had the shop policy of 65.00 per hour. Guess they got smart :-)

Bill

Like a lot of other car owners who post here I do this myself. You have to gap new spark plugs brfore installing. Pay a couple bucks for a wire guage and follow the instructions. The gap for your car should be on the sticker on the underside of the hood. You'll also have to have a special wrench or socket for the spark plugs. I used to use a cheap spark plug wrench until I bought a cheap socket set on sale which icludes a spark plug socket. I think all these socket sets include a spark plug socket. Canadian tire here in Canada is always having sales on tool sets.

you can buy a set of ignition wires with a lifetime guarantee. just keep the receipt and never pay for ignition wires for the car again. the only way they can do this and stay in business is if wires never need changing, think about that.

you can also buy a hand held vacuum guage for under $20. it will show if the engine is missing. you plug it into a vacuum hose somewhere on the engine and watch the needle. I gathered together all the info I could find on using one of these things and put it on my webpage (see below).

you can buy a volt meter on sale for about $10 and check ignition wires with it, among other things. Canadian Tire also has these on sale a couple times a year. I've also seen them on sale at other auto parts stores and discount department stores.

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I would be taking the estimate and the coupon to the local BBB and filing a complaint.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Joe wrote:

For what? So far, he's got an ignition inspection, and has paid nothing.

Coupon says $29.99 for an inspection and spark plug change.

He was quoted $70.96 for a spark plug change.

That is a case of fraud for the BBB.

Mike

Stephen Bigelow wrote:

I've not re-gapped a spark plug on an import car in 10 yrs. (Although I'm not a professional mechanic)

If you buy the right plugs you most likely will not have to gap them. Do not put Bosch Platinums in there the $2 ones at the parts store are not OEM for any car that I've ever heard of. Buy the OEM spec ones which are probably $5 or so each at a Toyota dealer or imported parts store. They're made by NGK or Nippon Denso or some other big named far east mfgr. If you buy them at a Toyota dealer they'll likely only have a toyota part # on them. You may be able to buy them cheaper from online Toyota dealers, and some local dealers may even price match based on a web page printout or even your word alone sometimes. You may be able to get them from a Chevy dealer as another alternative, too.

You'd be better off with Copper based OEM style plugs if you want to save money than buying cheapo platinum ones. You'll want to research that though, not just take the word of the Autozone counter guy.

To replace the spark plugs on a budget you could get the spark plug socket that's permanently attached to it's handle. On this car the plugs are deep down in the intake manifold and if you use a regular socket/socket extension you'll likely find that you screw the new plug in and can't remove the socket w/o removing the spark plug since it's designed to pull apart easily.

Checking ignition wires with a volt meter is a waste of time. You may be able to find resistance specs for them but the more important issue is whether they arc due to cracking. On most cars you can mist them with water to see this but on many 16 valve engines like this one the last

5 inches or so of the wire is hidden inside the head and sealed at the top. If they're out of resistance that's not an indication of anything.

You may also find that this car is distributorless ignition system. I'd expect those wires to be very expensive and less likely to need replacing.

I'll bet the coupon isn't for plats. And it STILL hasn't cost him a dime. The BBB has no teeth, anyways. Just another business.

Not true. If you do minor engine work like compression testing or valve adjustment you'll be removing the wires and they can get damaged. I did this with my last set and located the problem with a volt meter. Its cheaper than taking the car to a garage for diagnosis.

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Eh.. I'll be the dissenting voice here..

I looked up part prices on-line.. Napa sells Bosch Plats for $1.99, P+2 for $3.99, and P+4 for $5.99.. each. Beck Arnley wires sell for $55, Beldens are $52.

Parts America was Plats for $2.14, P2 for $3.99, P4 for $5.99. Wires are from $37 to $75.. the $75 is for Standard wires.

So parts markup is about 100%.. not uncommon.

Labor; looks like about 1.5 hours labor cost.. depending on hourly rate. Still not unreasonable.

For someone not able to do any of their own work.. seems to be about what I'd expect from a chain. Understand that brakes and tune-ups are probably one of the highest profit jobs there are.. so, in my opinion, the price isn't out of line.

Now, if you can do this yourself you can certainly save some money. If you have a mechanic friend, offer to take them out to dinner in exchange for some of their time.

In addition, sometimes it's a really PITA to change plugs.. the current Ford 5.4L F350 charges 4.5 hours to change the 8 plugs. The Ford E series with the same motor call for even more time. I've got a Taurus 3.0 V6.. the top half of the intake has to be removed to change the rear plugs.

Hope this helps..

Regards,

Jim

Wanna bet the coupon said 'Applies to most cars and light trucks'?

Look here..

Regards,

Jim

That's what I'm going to do. It's been awhile since I've changed plugs (my old Ford '85 Econoline 150 was the last) but I'm just going to do it myself. I don't have a decent socket set, so this will be a nice excuse to get one. A guy from here emailed me some pretty nice instructions on how to do the job, so I'm going to take his advice.

BTW- what parts stores do you guys prefer? Around here there's NAPA and AutoZone, with Checkers and CarQuest just a little drive for me. Is there anywhere else to get parts?

discount chains are good places to buy cheap tools. some also like Sears. for parts I go to a hole in the wall, in the cellar of a service station. low prices if you can accept the 24 hour turnaround.

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I can. What station, Bill?

I have a question about the Bosch plugs. They seem to be touted as being great aftermarket plugs, but I don't know if that's from actual recommendations or from Bosch's advertising dollars. I'm torn between using a set of Bosch or Champion plugs and using something that's more like the OEM plugs in my car. I haven't checked to see what kind of plugs are in there now... the previous owner said he'd had them changed at 50k. You know, I don't think I've ever put so much thought into spark plugs my entire life.

Now I just have to wait until I'm willing to brave the cold and get the job done. I might be gung-ho at first, but when I get outside by my car in subzero temperatures my desire to be a do-it-yourself mechanic wanes considerably.

I've used Bosch Plats in several different makes and models and have never had a problem with them. Last set I had I took out at 32K miles just because it seemed like it was time to do it. They looked just fine but I put new ones in anyways since I was already "there".

-- Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts:

"What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . . Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House of Representatives, August 17, 1789

Although I normally do not defend 'chains' I don't think that price was way out of line; one of the biggest items was the spark plug wires which are very expensive at the retail level. While its true the do it yourselfer would cut the cost by at least 50% thats sort of comparing apples and oranges. In fact it seems that the org. poster got the coupon inspection part for free. And the shop did not try to 'oversell' - it seemed to be a pretty straight forward tuneup after it was determined that there were no other problems. So they might have made some money - after all its a business! (In fact, a full tune up at that mileage should prob. include the air filter and PCV valve and maybe the oxygen sensor.) "FWIW - if anything"