Balancing tires/front end shake

I've had old cars like that too. Balance the thing over and over and it's only good for 500 miles. It sucks. One was a 1988 Jeep Cherokee. It had a shake that would never go away. 3 different sets of tires. New Rotors and still it shook. It was a PIA. It could have been a unbalanced drive shaft. The dealer never did fix it. They just kept blaming the tires. Good luck and hope you fix it (although I doubt you ever will)

Steve m..

bushings (control arm) are possible - someting is not maintaining location here. I had an old oldsmobile that did that, and when I put new bushings in the control arms, it stopped the problem, and also the "loose" feel in the suspension.

Andrew

James wrote:

The control arm bushings are the only things I have yet to replace on the Spider mainly because I hate taking springs out. Everything else has been touched.

The Fairlane has the original control arm bushings as well.

I'm going to have the tire store rebalance the rims on my Fiat once more and insist they put weights on the outside of the rim. If that don't fix it, I'll replace the control arm bushings.

And if that fixes it, I'll know I'm onto something.

I would think any worn front end parts would have been found during the alignment. I assume the tires were speed balanced. Have you considered the drive or CV shafts being bent or out of balance ? Bad shocks or struts ? My now retired toyota had a bad shimmy at 65. I changed just the front tires because thats where it felt like it was coming from. It didn't help. It was a back tire. I once found a bad drive shaft on an old Chevy by taking the rear wheels off while on jack stands and running it up to speed. Good luck

I put new shocks it 9 years ago. They don't feel worn out (I can also push down on the car and they do not bounce) but that's something I'll consider.

That has been recentey changed. Those were in fact worn out.

I had the tires "forced balanced". This was to see if the rims were bent. I'm not sure if this is the same thing your talking about.

They said they were straight. But they still only put weights on the inside of the rims. Not the outside.

What leads me to believe this may have something to do with my problems is my father has a fleet of old high mileage cars and I noticed all four of his vehicles have weights on the outside of the rims where mine do not. He said he's not having this problem. He has a

94 Plymouth minivan with 140,000 miles on it with cheap tires. This is basically a work van for hauling stuff around and it sounds like the suspension bushings are shot in this vehicle yet there is no front end vibration.

I'm going back to this shop today and will explain the problems I've been having and tell them to do whatever they have to it to balance these tires. Maybe it's as simple as putting weights on the outside of rim.

The tires I've been running are Nankang 601s. They look like Yokohama knockoffs with a directional tire pattern. Not a commonly known brand. I paid about $50 a piece for these. From day one they have never driven without front end vibration. I don't think they were properly balanced from day one.

There is something else to point out. When this shop balanced these tires they put them on backwards and I ran them like this for about

3000 miles without knowing. While trying to figure out another problem, the alignment shop pointed this out. I wonder if running directional tires backwards messed the balance up or damaged the tires.

They are on straight right now.

Let me get this straight -

You bought incredibly cheap chinese made tires, installed them improperly, had them removed and reinstalled in the opposite direction, suspect they aren't properly balance - AND - you still wonder why you have a front end vibration? Can you borrow a set of decent tires (mounted and balanced on OE style wheels)? If so try those and see if the problem persists. Poorly made tires are one of the easiest ways to ruin the ride and handling of a vehicle. For my whole life my Father as ruined the performacne of one vehicle after another by buying cheap replacement tires. He refuses to believe there is any difference between $50 tires and $100 tires. He is wrong.

Regards,

Ed White

I paid $50 a piece for them. It wasn't like I bought them from Harbour Freight.

What do you define was not being crappy tires?

When I go into a tire shop I don't ask for the cheapest tire they have. I ask for a good tire and think that's what I'm getting.

Do you think any store will ever admit they sell crappy tires? But then again they sell, better and more expensive tires.

Personally I prefer Michelins. I have had decent luck with Goodyears (I might be the only person alive who has). I have never had a good Firestone or Bridgestone tire, although I know people who claim Bridgestones are OK. I have had OK luck with BF Goodrich Tires (now a Michelin Brand) and Dunlop Tires (a Goodyear Brand). I generally have had poor results with General Tires (a Continental Brand), although the OE Continentals on my new Expedition are OK. My Father tends to buy "Farm Bureau" tires (made by various manufacturers) and "Multi-Mile" tires ( A Kelly Spring Field aka Goodyear low line tire). I hear Toyo tires are good, but have never bought any.

Personally I stay away from any private label brands or house brands (Grand Prix, Country Squire, etc.). They are probably made by one of the big boys, but when they put some BS name on the sidewall I worry that they are second rate. The difference in cost per mile for good tires and bad tires is way too low for me to risk buying second rate tires. The very best tires cost less than 2 cent per mile, even for performance tires. Crappy ties are probably over 1 cent per mile. Wouldn't you pay a penny per mile for decent ride, handling and braking?

Regards,

Ed White

$50 a piece is like buying them from Harbour freight. I'd expect a decent (not great tire) to cost over $65. Good tires will be over $80. Really good tires around $100.

You do get what you pay for.

Regards,

Ed White

Approximately 8/7/03 16:23, C. E. White uttered for posterity:

Figure a set of 4 will last 4 years, so the OP saved a big whopping $50 or so per year for crappy tires compared to a good set of Michelin, Pirelli, etc. that just might keep the shiny side up a bit more effectively in an emergency. And lived with an unnecessarily crappy ride for those 4 years.

Uni-directional tires can be ruined by installing them in the wrong direction - Goodyear (store) put one of my gatorbacks on wrong once, and the thing basically fell apart in about 2K miles (bad vibration and then seperation - but REALLY BAD vibration, thought I'd destroyed my car) - went back, and they replaced the tire no charge - admitted their mistake

- I like the shop, and they now stock Nitto's for my Mustang!!!! Go back to the guy who installed them backwards, and see what you can do towards a new set if tires - and yes, the difference in tires is amazing

- cheap tires are cheap tires - for the fairlane I'd guess that you could get some good tires for about 75 bucks apiece mounted.

Andrew

James wrote:

|> $50 a piece is like buying them from Harbour freight. I'd expect a |> decent (not great tire) to cost over $65. Good tires will be over $80. |> Really good tires around $100.

Regional differences and market area competition can account for this kind of price variance in the same tire.

In my experience, the diff between cheap and quality tires is quality tires wear evenly and maintain their balance all the way down to the treadwear bars, without belt shift. Cheap tires become problematic at about half the tread life, just when they are getting decent for handling ;) Cheap tires have problems with belt shift, balancing etc. Also, they soften the sidewalls for a soft ride, rather than build stability into the entire carcass which is more expensive.

balances the tire-and-wheel while it is on the car. I've had hundreds of cars--in the resale business--and my dad had a tire shop as described. I've taken him cars w/brand new, name-brand tires, and he had to true 1 or more and then balance them while on the car. Only way to get some cars to roll instead of bump. BTW: we've had several sets of Michelins that were out of round enough to cause same prob. and require same correction--altho' Mich. rep said they made no "out-of-round" tires. Even a square box can be "axled and balanced", but it'll never roll smoothe. Some tire shops just don't wanna take the time to true a tire anymore! To check it for out-of-round, jack it up and set a block just behind (or in front) of 1 tire at the time, still mounted on the car, and place it close enough that it is about 1/8-1/16 inch away. Then easily spin the tire/wheel by hand. Any low or high spot will readily show itself, as the tire will move closer to the block or farther from the block when it gets to the out-of-round spot. HTH & good luck. sdlomi

Also I might add that the following to my defense:

These tires I paid $53 a piece for are 14" 60 series 185s. Usually the bigger the tire the more it costs. But I've also noticed the lower the profile the more the tire costs. Less rubber but they cost more.

If I paid $53 for a 16.5" 70 series truck tire for my dad's truck, then yes I'd agree that would be a really cheap tire.

These tires were purchased 5 years ago. They are probably close to $65 now so account for inflation.

Sears has these Sumitomos in my size on sale right now for $49 a piece. Not counting balancing, used tire disposal , etc which comes to around $260 when all is said and done.

I've heard people say these are good tires. But I had never heard of this brand until the other day. So I was skeptical at $49 a piece.

Next the tire dealer who sold me the Nankangs told me they were good tires. I'm not a tire expert so I had to take this guy's word for it.

They don't look like skinny $19 General white walls. They have a good tread pattern and all around look like good tires. There's no telling what he paid for them wholesale. So naturally he is going to stear me toward a shitty tire he's making more markup on them as apposed to Michelins or Dunlops.

Also I didn't realize until after I bought them they were made in Taiwan. So after I noticed that I questioned to quality.

And finally, the regional thing. I would agree in areas with a higher cost of living, a tire would cost more.

My uncle used to live in a small post war house in Springfield Virginia just outside of DC. After he retired he wanted out of the DC area and put his house up for sale. He sold it so some guy who lived up the street for $175,000 in 1987 all because the guy said he could get to work an hour earlier by moving a mile down the road on account of the traffic. My uncle moves to Greenville SC and buys a house three times the size of his old one for $150,000.

That same house in DC would probably be worth over $200,000 today but would only be worth $70,000 in my area.