Does brake fluid have a shelf life?

Oil boils when brought near a red-hot caliper piston. Brake fluid doesn't.

Do not use DOT 5 in anything that already has DOT 3/4 in it. It will cause you to have to change all the seals, o-rings and little rubber thingies. You can mix 3 and 4 but not 5. #5 was sold about 25 years ago as some hotrod brake helper. A lot of bikers bought it and ended up replaceing the seals because their systems came with #4 and I've heard that even if you try to flush the old stuf out it still will not work. Turns out the #5 is also not dependable for heavy use, I'm getting vague on this, but I think it boils at a lower temp. Only advantage of #5 is it doesn't absorb water so there is less chance of rusting brake parts in systems that never have the fluid changed.

My recomendation is to flush brake systems completely once a year. I know there are manfacturers recomendations and this sounds pretty lofty of me but it is how I try to do it and at a cost of less than $5 per car or $1 per bike, I'm stiking with it.

Use the old fluid at your own risk but, sense you asked, if I had any systems that were using fluid, like sometimes my car needs fluid till I get around to fixing it, I would use it there but I don't think I would put the fluid you ask about in a good brake system.

I hadn't heard that they switched from SS to brass for brake sleaves. Just a guess but I'll bet the brass gives longer service because Stainless Steal is not really stainless.

Sure. And I suppose it's paradoxical that I don't use Bardahl, Amsoil, Mobil 1, Teflon, Rain-X, do oil analysis, sprinkle pimp oil, wax weekly, have spinner hubcaps, dice hanging from the mirror, a Mother Mary dash figurine, various decals, etc, etc. Guess I'm just one interesting and mysterious son of a bitch who will never be truly understood. But my cars always do what they're supposed to do. Except when they don't. BTW, when I change oil I wipe the battery with a clean rag. And dump the ashtray. Maybe that's really why I change the oil. It's a reminder. Wait. All that sounds pretty boring. I take it back.

--Vic

well, yeah... but the kind of people who send their old calipers and wheel cylinders to e.g. White Post or Goldline really aren't concerned with cost. So I ASSume that there must be some advantage to brass over SS, but I don't know what it may be.

nate

Actually he makes a good point.

A person who throws excessive maintenance at oil changes (by AT LEAST a factor of 2!) and then refuses to do something so basic as a coolant flush at the proper intervals is very definitely a paradox. Or at least very illogical. Or both.

For what its worth- even if your cooling system WAS hermetically sealed and impossible to contaminate, as you erroneously claim that brake systems are, you DO realize that corrosion inhibitors have a limited lifetime, don't you? Silicate-based inhibitors show significant deterioration after 2 years, and HOAT/OAT types after about 5 years. Its not about being "open" in that case, its about the reactions that occur as a natural part of the way the chemicals work to protect the metals in the system.

Toss the brake fluid. Got it.

Thanks everyone.

You do realize you just said that oil changes should occur NO SOONER than 6000 miles, regardless of service. In case you don't know, you just did. Maybe you really believe that. I don't. Doesn't matter anyway.

Are you talking about the coolant that's been circulating through my Corsica for 10 1/2 years, cooling it summer and winter? That coolant? Prestone green as I recall. Been a damn long time. Apparently it's going to keep ignoring your numbers, formulas, and chemical composition postulations a bit longer. Welcome to the real world. If it protests I'll call the wrecker to take it away. But I already told you that. As to my keeper/highway car the longest it's gone without a coolant change is 3 years - since I've had it anyway.. But I already said that. About my oil changes you had no idea about service, but just wanted to take a shot. The guy who's pushing brake fluid flushes because of practically microscopic pitting of brake cylinder bores is now squawking that I change oil too often. Get real. Hey, I have to ask. I just can not resist. You get $79.95 for that bullshit brake fluid flush? And if you do oil changes, when do your stickers say to come back for more? Again, get real.

--Vic

nate

I have heard that you *can* switch to DOT 5 if you first flush completely with alcohol and then blow everything dry with air. If you have a pressure bleeder and some 70% rubbing alcohol you could probably take a pretty good stab at it. I just don't see the point as IMHO whatever fluid you use should still be changed regularly and DOT 3/4 works better than DOT 5 anyway.

I have heard that there are now some fluids called "DOT 5.1" that meet DOT 5 specs for boiling point but are otherwise similar to and intermiscible with DOT 3/4. If I start seeing them on the shelf at my FLAPS I'd be interested to try them to see if there are any downsides.

nate

I don't doubt that at all.

I won't be needing that. Thanks.

Agree. But I don't sell my cars unless I can talk the boneyard wrecker out of 35 bucks. Been years since they bit. The cars always run ok, but the bodys/frames are shot with rust. Not too surprisingly, the boneyard never asks about my fluid changes. I don't even bother telling them if I recently filled the windshield washer jug.

--Vic

I agree, Nate.. I would not want one of his cars.

You have absolutely no need to worry about that..

--Vic

Steve wrote in news:NdCdndiJivrTR9vUnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@texas.net:

Or a troll...

Well if you keep each of your cars to the point that they are only fit for scrap, then that's fair enough.

I prefer to change my car while it's still roadworthy (and has at least

For a car that's going to be driven after I've sold it, the buyer (not surprisingly) will want to make sure it's been properly looked after and doesn't have any major problems lurking behind the scenes.

If it has been well looked after, that may even mean that the parts taken for spares when the car is cannibalised by the scrap yard will be in a more saleable condition.

As a matter of interest, how old are your cars if they are affected by rust? The last time I had a car go rusty on me (mainly the rear wheel-arches) was a 1978 Renault 5. Every car that I've had since then (another Renault 5, 2 VG Golfs, 2 Peugeot 306s) has not suffered from rust. My present car is much older than the first Renault was when I sold it and there's not a blemish of rust, nor has it had to have any welding to repair rusty floor panels so it will pass its MOT (annual inspection required in the UK for any vehicle 3 years or older).

It's no worse, and probably better then, whatever's in your system now. Regular brake fluid will soak up about 3% moisture and that's about it. In regular use in a car it will achieve that level in about

First off, one should take care of any car he intends to keep for himself or sell to someone else. You can decide if a brake system flush is a selling point. If I were to be looking at your car, and you mentioned that, it would make no difference to me, because I don't care what anybody selling a car says, since I assume they're lying anyway. Even the truth wouldn't matter on a brake fluid flush. I look the car over, drive it, listen to it, feel it, and decide if I want to pay the price. It has worked every time for me. If the oil smells like fried chicken, or there's sawdust on the dipstick, I'll take a pass. Here's a quick stab at listing rust buckets and when junked..

--Vic

You're right. There's one type of service that would need a change sooner. Fording a river in my Jeep and getting water in the crankcase...

Oh, it'll keep on cooling. That's not what you use antifreeze for anyway, its main purpose is to stop corrosion, and its second purpose is to prevent freezing in extended sub-30s weather. It actaully IMPAIRS cooling a little bit when compared to pure water. The old green forumlas were used silicate corrosion inhibitors, and the silicate starts precipitating out after about 2-3 years. If you don't know that, then maybe you're the one that needs an introduction to the real world.

Yeah, we know you don't give a ratshit about your car. If you did, you'd have changed the coolant about 8 years ago, like the manual says. It still boggles me that you'll be pedantic about following the manual's 3k mile oil change recommendation when modern oils can go so much longer, but you'll leave totally used-up antifreeze in there for a decade.

Suit yourself. Hope you have that wrecker on speed-dial, because if you treat the coolant that way I'd hate to think about all the other neglected systems on there. If you haven't changed the coolant, its also obvious that you've got 10-year-old (at least) radiator and heater hoses waiting to burst. Bet the freeze-plugs are tissue-thin, too... I've seen what failure to change the coolant does to those plenty of times.

That's the whole point. He's got a 90s vehicle waiting for the scrapyard, but I'd be willing to jump in my 60s vehicle and drive from Texas to San Diego tomorrow if I had to, because I know it won't fall apart before I get to Tuscon.

You don't get it, do you?

If run-it-till-it-dies is your plan, that's fine. But don't go dispensing "wisdom" about how you never need to flush brake fluid or coolant to other people based on your mode of operation! I saw your list of clunkers, and they rarely lasted 8 years. My daily driver is 43 years old this model year. We just retired my wife's car at 16 model years old. Your plan certainly doesn't apply to me. Granted, I'm at the