Fisker Karma.

wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net...

And The Fisker "Karma" is alleged to cost "only" $80,000 (we will see if that holds up when cars are actually available). A link to the story is

The segment was more like an infomercial than actual journalism. It had the tone of, "Detroit engineers are stupid. Even some random guy can build really cool plug-in hybrids before GM can." The CBS reporters need to review the history of the Bricklin, Delorean, Telsa, etc., etc..... And the 100 mpg claim is equally bogus. Supposedly the car can go 50 miles on batteries alone before the engine kicks in (hmm, sounds like the Volt). It is not clear exactly what the 100 mpg claim is based on - 100 miles total, 50 electric only and 50 with the engine running to recharge the batteries, or ????? And I loved the solar panel on the roof (no sunroof or convertible version I guess) We are talking about maybe 4 square meters of solar panels at an inefficient angle. I'd guess on a really good summer day, you might be able to capture 2 kwh of electricity ($0.60 worth) assuming you park in the open. On most days the actual amount captured will be considerably less (almost, but not quite zero in a lot of cases). The net is, the solar panels are part of the con, not really useful, except for attracting attention. Building a few cool looking prototypes and writing some great advertising copy is not the same as running a car company. Building AND selling cars at a profit is not so easy. I'd say Mr. Fisker's greatest achievement is fleecing 50 million dollars from investors from Qatar. He wants some form the US Government now, since, unlike GM, he knows how to do things right. I wish CBS would hire a few engineers to review crap like this before they go on the air with it. CBS probably thinks a Delorean with the Mr. Fusion generator is just around the corner. I wonder if Mr Fisker talked to John Delorean about how to avoid fraud charges?

On a similar note regarding stupid local TV reporting - the local TV station recently ran a story on a guy who added a hydrogen generator to his Explorer (see

The station's "traffic guy" rode with him. The guy claimed normally the Explorer only got 17 on the highway (I owned one like his and averaged better than that in mixed driving conditions). The "inventor" then hooked up the miracle hydrogen generator, they filled the tank, did a few miles on the highway, stopped at a station and calculated the mileage based on a relatively small gas purchase. The results -33 mpg. And the "traffic guy" acted like he thought this was entirely reasonable....talk about bogus reporting. The only counterpoint was an interview with a community college "technician" that was unwilling to say the guy was an idiot. He danced around the subject indicating skepticism. Too bad they didn't ask me. I am will to do a reasonable long term test on my car, or any car they are willing to provide as long as they pay me for my time.

Ed

Tests were commissioned and paid for by Popular Mechanics magazine a year or two ago, and "Mythbusters" did a short and not so scientific test on them as well. Conclusions were that it didnt work, didnt help, was a scam.

I actually Emailed the reporter who did the news story. I sent him the link to the PM story and to the EPA Gas Saving Devices web page. He is a very nice kid that does the traffic reports and light news for the local station. He sent me a very nice courtesy reply that essentially said he just was reporting on the fad and wasn't trying to say it was true. My feeling is, reporting on something so obviously bogus gives it undeserved credibility. People desperately want to believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, UFO's and 200 mile carburetors. Giving one of the whackos 5 minutes on TV just encourage 100's more. I still can't convince one of my co-workers that acetone is not improving his gas mileage. I am sure at least 50 people in the Raleigh area are out building hydrogen generators for their cars, and probably 49 of them will swear there mileage has increased by 50%.

Ed

I think you are exactly correct, and you are to be commended for trying to set the newsgroup on the straight and narrow.

Popular mechanics and Mythbusters are both scams also. So quoting them makes you sound ignorant.

Oxygen enrichment has been tested by both MIT and NASA (among others) and their conclusions are that it is not a scam. The latest study from MIT concluded that with the right modifications to engine design hydrogen-enriched gasoline powered engines can achieve 30% reduction in fuel use without any loss in performance. The math is pretty simple. There is energy lost when you use some of the fuels energy to produce hydrogen. There is energy gained when the combustion of hydrogen mixed with hydrocarbon fuel produces greater thermal efficiency in an engine. When the gains out weigh the losses you have a fuel savings.

Hydrogen enrichment can help overcome the 2 factors that limit thermal efficiency in spark ignition engines. One factor that wastes huge amounts of fuel in spark ignition engines is the pumping losses due to the throttle plate when the engine is operating under light loads. The other factor that limits the thermal efficiency is called the "knock limit" by automotive engineers. Overcoming the knock limit means you can design an engine with higher compression ratios and more aggressive engine management without causing damage to the engine. Hydrogen enrichment has been shown to help overcome both of these limitations in spark ignition engines.

The easiest way to produce a working effective hydrogen enrichment system is using natural gas as the input fuel. There are several tests fleets using hydrogen enriched natural gas engines that are testing the technology already and they have shown 20%-40% savings. Simply pointing at someone with a mason jar and some wires and tubes and saying that setup proves hydrogen enrichment doesn't work is the mentality of a mindless simpleton. All the major auto makers are now looking at this technology. Delco announced their research in this area this past summer. And the press release said they expect within a couple of years that new cars will be equipped with hydrogen enriched add-on units that they are now testing and developing.

-jim

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I did not say that hydrogen enrichment won't work (I really don't know), but the guy on TV with the mason jar is not getting 50% better mileage, and the guys selling plans on the web are scam artist.

Ed

I snail mail subscribe to Popular Mechanics magazine (and Popular Science magazine and PC World Magazine and Smart Computing magazine.Believe it or not, I do own and use a Velocity Micro desktop computer, but I never drag it around in the mud) Maybe I did see an article in one of my Popular Mechanics magazines about the Fisker Karma cars, I probally then forgot about it.I have a pair of Fiskers scissors here, I wonder if I can trade them in?

There will probally be enough rich fat cats that will buy those Fisker Karma cars. cuhulin

That is the gist of it. The site I went to is a multilevel spam/scam deal. And these are the systems we are talking about, not something that might be out in a few years, if ever.