Fuel injector expected lifespan?

I would check the pcv system, it might be faulty, leaking / plugged, creating a contamination problem, the motor supports could be loose - shot, and if you had the flush service done on the injectors / throttle body cleaned, injectors inspected, this is what I would check first.

you might need to get a second opinion.

mho v=83e

snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net wrote in news:8828-4456AFCD-50@storefull-

't'ain't. I checked. That was the first thing Dyson advised me to check. She's squeaky clean.

Been checked, They're fine.

Yeah, which is what I said to begin with. TB is clean. There was no oil present.

Yup. It should be yawningly obvious why I came here, no?

how does the under surface of the oil filler cap - look?

what is the primary problem you are trying to overcome, vibration / hesitation?

if gasoline is in the oil sump, how did it get there, other than from a leaking fuel injector or bad ignition problems?

mho v=83e

Are my ears burning? Hey, Tegger! Thought I'd reply even though I don't have an experience-based answer on your Integra 1.8L specifically.

Firstly, if a Motorvac service, all by itself, *did* make a noticeable difference in drivability for the worst, then I would suspect fuel delivery components. This would basically include injectors, regulator, filter, and fuel rail. Realistically, you injectors are what have probably suffered from the dislodging of crap around their pintles into the spray holes at each injector's tip. This will cause a less than ideal spray pattern (important on multi-port injection delivery systems), which will result in unburned gas making it's way into the oil via the piston rings.

With 266k on the clock, you can bet that the oil rings are carboned up somewhat -- regardless of how well you cared for the vehicle. This is previous Honda experience talking. If you aren't using a significant amount of oil then I would generally advise you to forgo an expensive overhaul, though. One quart in 2000 miles is not bad for your mileage, but still a borderline call on an overhaul.

Regarding your concern about "vibration caused from gum and ring deposits" -- no. The cause and effect from that would be farther apart than, say, linking Kevin Bacon to Nipsey Russell in Six Degrees of Separation.

As far as diagnosing injectors is concerned, I feel that they are the last item to consider replacing after all other tests have been made. Some really sharp techs can spot a fuel delivery issue with a scope test of the ignition, but on an engine with your miles it would be difficult to rule out all of the other variables because of worn components skewing the ignition trace. I would first look at the O2 sensor while driving to see if the car was in fuel control. Then I would check the main sensor inputs (MAP, CTS, and TPS) and clean the ground terminal on the thermostat housing. Then I would check compression and leakdown if there was still concern. If everything looked good I might be willing to shotgun a set of injectors.

Check out Linder Tech --

I have never been burned by installing injectors to fix a complaint. I do check everything possible first though, to "eliminate the obvious". It should be mentioned that I rarely replace injectors. It should also be mentioned that I rarely work on a car with 266K :)

Toyota MDT in MO

TeGGeR=AE wrote:

It should be fairly easy to diagnose the injectors with a pressure drop method. Also check fuel pressure and volume. From the fuel in oil symptom I would suspect either leaky injector or leaking fuel pressure regulator diaphragm. Both are easy to diagnose.

"Comboverfish" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

Thanks for the reply. I was hoping you'd answer.

This certainly makes sense. It happened *immediately* afterwards.

The experience was a disaster. The tech didn't hook up at the fuel filter, he did the connections at the fuel pump. In the process, he broke a fuel line, then he wrecked my back seat. The manager refunded my money plus I got $60 of store merchandise for free to make up for it.

It makes me wonder what else he messed up.

There is a side issue with a slightly high idle. Sometimes it sits at 800-

Thanks for the link. I may need that.

I'm going to get one more Motorvac done (at a different place) and see what happens. I'm also gettng the fuel filter replaced and the fuel pressure checked tomorrow morning.

Thanks again, Comboverfish.

"Kevin" wrote in news:1zD5g.61302$gE.57454@dukeread06:

I take it that would be done at the pressure gauge while the engine is running?

And my regular guy doesn't want to do it, which is bizarre, since he's been wonderful over the last 25 years.

I'm getting the pressure and filter looked at tomorrow.

I just checked the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator right now. There's a slight smell of fuel...

An injector pressure drop test is done with the engine off. First install a fuel pressure gauge. Then each injector is opened electrically for an exact (short) duration, then the pressure drop is read at the gauge. Finally all pressure drop readings are compared. If there is a difference, you can suspect blockage in the injector or rail area that has the least pressure drop. I take this test with a grain of salt. Maybe I've had bad luck with it, but it hasn't told me much in the past. It's like fixing jewelery with a sledge hammer. I haven't seen a car that showed any significant difference in readings, or maybe my test method was inaccurate. Whatever. You can't use a built in scantool injector pressure drop test on old Hond-Curas, so you would need a specialized injector operator tool, or a timed 12 volt on/off signal.

If there really is fuel in the regulator vacuum side, the regulator needs to be replaced. That could be your whole problem. Perhaps the Motorvac tore the (already) weak diaphram.

Don't get another Motorvac. Fix the problem first.

Toyota MDT > "Kevin" wrote in

"Comboverfish" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

Would you say that there should be NO smell of fuel AT ALL in the vacuum line? There was certainly no liquid in the line. I applied vacuum to the line to see if I could draw liquid out of the regulator. None came out.

I've ordered a new regulator anyway. It's $130. The parts guy tells me there is exactly ONE left in all of Canada, and I'm getting it.

I would expect to see some visible fuel normally on a ruptured diaphram. It's pretty hard to determine a fuel smell from a 3/16" ID hose. Are you sure you didn't just smell a small gas leak in the vicinity, like upper injector orings or perhaps previously spilled gas from the Motorvac service?

You could always put a vacuum pump with clear vinyl tubing on the regulator and keep a constant 20" on it, run the engine and look for fuel in the tubing.

Toyota MDT > "Comboverfish" wrote in

Probably any b-series fpr would work. Fuel filter is cheap and easy to replace. GL

I monitory my fuel pressure through an OBD II port on my 2003 Vulcan V6. Believe me, it is all over the place, from 35 low to 60 psi high. All over the place. You can see the numbers if you want, as I can post them.

Somehow, my engine runs fine anyhow. Go figure. The spec is 35 to 45 psi and I've seen it go to 60. Very erratic.

So I don't know if that is *normal.* Who tracks their fuel pressure every 5 seconds as I do? Nobody.

Lg

I can't say that I ever tracked fuel pressure on a 2003 Vulcan V6, But I have monitored fuel pressures on hundreds of other vehicles. Any time I found eratic fuel pressure there was a problem, ranging from defective fuel pumps to broken regulator springs (rare). Any time the pressure goes over the specs it is due to the regulator or restricted return line. Check there first.

Uh, no, it is done with the fuel rail pressurized and the engine off. You do need a special device to fire the injector a precise number of milliseconds. Each injector should cause the same pressure drop in the rail when it is fired the same amount of time at the same starting pressure. This test will show gross injector problems shuch as major restriction or weak injector coil. During the test you will know if you have any leaking injectors by the failure to maintain steady pressure in the rail, but you won't know which injector might be leaking. Better to bench test them for that.

Apply a vacuum to the fuel pressure regulator (about 15" to 20"). It should hold indefinately. If it looses vacuum, the diaphram is leaking.

Kevin

================================================================

I'm really sorry to hear that. Couldn't possibly be a restricted return line, as I've put Techron fuel system cleaner through the gas tank every 5,000 miles or so. Also, have installed a new fuel filter.

Now you would think a restricted return line would give you a fairly constant backpressure, but my pressures go all over the place, which leaves me with the fuel pressure regulator.

Easy enough to get at, I think I'll check out the electrical connections on it. I had bad electrical connections on my alternator that were causing havoc with my charging sytem. I'll check out this regulator...it is easy enough to get to. If I can get the signal to settle down by cleaning the connector contacts, fine. If not, I will buy another fpr.

Thanks for the tips.

Lg

I forgot to mention...this fuel pressure fluctuation can occur during a long idle, like while idling in a parking lot. It can go to 60 psi and back to 40 psi, all without touching the accelerator pedal.

What does that sound like ???

Lg

A bogus reading is what it sounds like. Don't trust the OBD output- put a gauge on it and see what its REALLY doing.

GOOD ADVICE. I pulled the plug and looked at it. Gold plated contacts for both male and female. Vacuum line? I have a vacuum gauge and pump with hose, I can "splice" into vacuum line to see if pressure is holding steady at a minus mmHg during idle, and test the fpr vacuum port at about 15mm Hg for a leakdown test.

Then...I can go for the voltages from the sending unit itself. All this takes a few minutes.

Busy now, will report back to the n/g when I find out what caused this.

Lg

Okay test results:

engine at warm idle ( 750 rpm )

Vacuum to fpr holds steady at 15 mm Hg

When air conditioning compressor kicks on, it goes to about 18 mm and holds pretty steady...when compressor turns off ( can hear clutch ) then vacuum to fpr drops to about 16 mm Hg, and HOLDS STEADY.

Now the only time the vacuum moves is when I goose the throttle, and then it goes from 10mm to 20mm Hg along with the rpm of the engine.

When I did the diaphragm test on the fpr, I took it up to 18mm Hg with engine off and it held steady as a rock.

SO, wtf does this mean? probably my AIR compressor cycling on and off during IDLE. Not a big deal apparently, as the engine purrs like a kitten.

Lg