Fuel injector expected lifespan?

BTW, Nipsey Russell has a Bacon number of 2:

Nipsey Russell was in Car 54, Where Are You? (1994) with Fran Drescher Fran Drescher was in Big Picture, The (1989) with Kevin Bacon

-Keith

Reply to
Keith Jewell
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Don't bother looking for problems. Your fuel pressure is supposed to be between 39 and 65PSI or between 30 and 65 if is a flex fuel engine. Don't worry about a restricted return line either... there isn't one or a fuel pressure regulator for that matter.

Your PCM controls the fuel pressure by monitoring line pressure and controlling the pulse width of your fuel pump. Bob

Reply to
Bob

sounds like the regulator's "governor" is shot and the fuel pump is overriding the regulator. just a guess.:--)

mho v=83e

Reply to
fiveiron

"Comboverfish" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Earlier you mentioned checking the TPS. The factory manual shows a procedure that uses Honda's "Test Harness", which I obviously don't have, so I used a 10 mega-ohm DVOM.

The manual states that the TPS ought to send 0.3V at closed throttle and

4.5V at WOT. I checked it with TPS plugged in and ignition on: VOM leads backprobing the relevant two wires. I get 5V no matter where the throttle is, which didn't make sense. I figured I was doing something wrong, so...

I decided to just unplug it and check resistance throughout the unit's travel. The needle on my analog VOM repeatedly moved smoothly from about

400 ohms at closed throttle to about 3.5K ohms at WOT. There are no opens at all. No sudden movements of the needle. No loss of continuity. Looks like the TPS is OK.

However, when I probe with the DVOM, it sometimes shows an open circuit at about half-throttle. Seemed to be related to how fast I opened the throttle. I could not duplicate this with the analog meter.

I also checked the coolant temp switch. It reads 200 ohms at full-hot, which is within range of the expected 200-400. The resistance increases to about 4K ohms at 60F. Again, looks OK.

Tomorrow I get the new fuel pressure regulator. At the same time I will get the garage to check the preessure for me, both before and after. The diaphragm is not leaking.

If that does nothing, it's looking more and more like it might be the injectors. I had a crazy idea:

  • Unbolt the fuel rail, wire the injectors to it, out of the manifold, and stick the ends into four identical jars.
  • Turn ignition on to energize the EFI Main Relay
  • Ground Main Relay Terminal 8 to turn the fuel pump on
  • Backprobe and ground each injector in turn by hand, activating it for, say, 10 or 30 seconds, with a stopwatch
  • Compare fuel levels in each jar.

Waste of time?

I figure that way I can compare spray patterns too.

Reply to
TeGGeR®

===============================================================

You say so. Let me look it up under U code engine in my Service Manual.

================================================================= Fuel System The fuel system consists of the following components:

fuel filter (9341) fuel injectors (9F593) fuel level sensor and pump (9H307) fuel supply manifold fuel tank (9002) inertia fuel shutoff (IFS) switch (9341) WARNING: Do not smoke or carry lighted tobacco or open flame of any type when working on or near any fuel-related component. Highly flammable mixtures are always present and can be ignited, resulting in possible personal injury.

The vehicle:

uses an electronic returnless fuel system. is equipped with a sequential multiport fuel injection (MFI) system. has a fuel injection supply manifold. uses separately controlled fuel injectors (9F593) for each cylinder. The fuel injectors are mounted to the intake manifold. fuel injectors are supplied with pressurized fuel from the fuel pump (9350) through the fuel injection supply manifold (9D280). has a fuel tank filler pipe assembly which cannot be modified in any way and is serviced only by replacement with a new filler pipe assembly. has a fuel pressure regulator which monitors the fuel pressure during running and key on/engine off conditions. ==================================================================

Yep, "has a fuel pressure >regulator< alright, not just a sensor.

Nominal pressure with key on engine off is 37-45 psi, *note: With manual gauge, scan tool will be 7-10 psi higher.

Not in this case. Nice try though.

Lg

Reply to
Lawrence Glickman

You have O-rings all over the place on each injector rail intake manifold

IF you keep track not to lose any, it sounds like a dangerous idea, but a pretty CLEVER idea.

Lg

Reply to
Lawrence Glickman

Lawrence Glickman wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Cleverly dangerous maybe?

I was planning on replacing all the O-rings if I did that. They're original. I imagine they won't take well to being disturbed.

Reply to
TeGGeR®

Dangerous but clever. You are misting the fuel, and somewhere just above each bottle the correct fuel/air mix will be waiting for a spark. It could be static electricity. It could be anything, and once you blow up a bottle of flaming gasoline, say goodbye to your vehicle.

So, I do not recommend doing this, but I would like to watch ( from a distance, with binoculars ).

Lg

Reply to
Lawrence Glickman

Most injectors are designed to be pulsed. Continuous on time may cause the coil to overheat. Some systems also use a dropping resistor on the ground side to reduce current. It is not advisable to provide a direct ground for any length of time. You might not damage any injectors, but the possibility is very real. OTOH, I have done exactly what you propose, except I used a 6 volt test light in series with the ground and only tapped it to ground for less than one second at a time or in most cases used an injector pulse generator (available from OTC). Keep in mind that once the injectors are not held in place by the fuel rail they may tend to pop out of the rail from the fuel pressure. I used nylon bundle straps to secure them. This operation can become a flame thrower without warning. No smoking . BTW, you will not be able to time the on time accurately enough with a stop watch, to get exact flow measurements. What does work is to set this up with the injectors still plugged into the vehicle wiring harness, and after disabling the ignition system crank the engine for a few seconds.This will pulse each injector an equal amount. Again, beware of the fire hazard.

BTW, spray pattern has little effect on performance after the engine is warmed up. Fuel flow is the only concern.

Kevin

Reply to
Kevin

gasoline is flammable. be careful.

mho v=83e

Reply to
fiveiron

You must have some sort of system that I am not familiar with. No fuel pressure regulator that I ever worked on had any electrical function. The only type I know of are the diaphragm type with manifold vacuum applied to one side and Fuel pressure to the other. My experiences may not be applicable in your case.

Reply to
Kevin

"Kevin" wrote in news:YiT5g.63931$gE.3252@dukeread06:

Hm. Hadn't thought of that.

This one does.

I'll ask the garage tomorrow if they can check for flow some more professional way.

Thanks.

Reply to
TeGGeR®

This is a pretty funky fpr. Let me see if I can get a photo of it from Rock Auto:

I hate to say this, but even Rock Auto doesn't have it listed.

Another *excerpt* from my repair manual: ==================================================================== Fuel Tank And Lines The fuel system consists of:

the standard fuel tank (9002). a fuel tank filler pipe (9034) which contains a restrictor plate to permit only unleaded fuel to be pumped into the fuel tank. a fuel tank filler pipe assembly that cannot be modified in any way. The fuel tank filler pipe is serviced only by replacement with a new filler pipe assembly. a 1/8 turn fuel tank filler cap (9030). a fuel filter (9155) providing filtration to protect the fuel injectors. fuel lines. fuel pressure regulator. a top-mount, bottom-sense fuel delivery module containing: the electric fuel pump which provides pressurized fuel to the engine. the fuel level sensor. an inlet filter. a check valve which maintains system pressure after the pump is shut off. fuel pressure regulator. The fuel pump is controlled by powertrain control module (PCM) (12A650). Electrical power to the pump is provided through the inertia fuel shut off (IFS) switch (9341) located in the left side B-pillar trim panel. ===============================================================================

There it is in writing. There it is on my fuel rail ( bank 2 )...I could take a photo of it. The wires must be for OBDII feedback, because I do get a signal from this MODULE that tells the engine what the fuel pressure is to the injectors.

It's a Ford.

therefore, it's FUBAR.

I just vacuum tested the *thing* It exists in the Service Manual AND the vehicle It doesn't exist anywhere else ;-D

Gawd, what fun if I ever have to replace THAT little bugger. Nobody will know what it is. You can see, "fuel pressure _regulator_" mentioned multiple times in the above Service Manual Excerpt. And I tested it. But it doesn't exist.

However...it really does exist.

Lg

Reply to
Lawrence Glickman

Let me ask you this: can you find a return line to the fuel tank from the engine? Is it possible that I am right and the service manual is wrong? If you have no return line how could the pressure regulator work without being mounted inside the tank?

You have what's called the electronic returnless fuel system and it works just like I said it did in my previous post. That regulator that you are looking at is actually an FRP or fuel rail pressure sensor. It doesn't control the fuel pressure directly. Bob

Reply to
Bob

Bob is 100% correct.

Reply to
aarcuda69062

Larry's first lesson on service manuals, they aren't always correct. That has always been a sore spot with me, hours wasted because of incorrect information..... especially if it was straight from the manual. Bob

Reply to
Bob

"Bob" wrote in news:saV5g.397$ snipped-for-privacy@fe04.lga:

A returnless system would still have a pulsation damper. Is this what you're thinking of here?

And speaking of that, I wonder if a bad pulsation damper might cause engine vibration?

Reply to
TeGGeR®

============================================================================ ===

Yeah Bob, I've seen/worked on that type of system before, but it was on a GM vehicle. I haven't been around any Fords with that system, but that sure is starting to sound like what he has. I'm starting to think maybe he is just seeing normal FP operation if it does have the returnless system. Kinda makes all the other stuff a moot point.

BUT... Didn't this thread start off with :

"The problem seems to have to do with fuel delivery. The car is a 1991 Acura Integra with 266,000 miles on it. The injectors are original."

How did we get on to FORD?

I'm so confused........

Good Night all,

Reply to
Kevin

"Kevin" wrote in news:wuQ5g.63913$gE.14940@dukeread06:

Interesting. I'll check into this tomorrow. If the garage can do it, and the cost is reasonable, I might get them to do that.

It's getting so the net is closing in on the injectors as being the culprits. I held vacuum on the FPR as suggested by Comboverfish. No leak. That leaves pressure, which I can't measure myself.

Comboverfish's injunction against a second Motorvac came too late. By then I'd already had it done (first one was free). No change in the problem.

Ho-boy. I guess I ought to be thankful. In 15 years and 266K miles, this is the very first driveability problem I've ever had with this car. It's never even stalled on me.

Reply to
TeGGeR®

Oh man, don't get me going...

Reply to
aarcuda69062

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