Make it harder to press gas pedal

I've never suggested left foot braking when driving a manual transmission. If nothing else, the pedal position would be all screwed up for doing it. In an earlier thread on this seemingly simple issue it was suggested that somehow normal people in normal driving need to keep their left foot "free" so they can jam it down and wedge it against the floor and kick panel to hold themselves into position for "better control" when they are doing 360's down the interstate.

Reply to
Ashton Crusher
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Not my contention, as should be clear from the context.

No dead pedal?

Reply to
T0m $herman

What confusion? 95% of the world drives this way. I've never gotten either pedal confused. You can get just as confused with two feet. Especially as y ou get older. This is proven!

ir regular cars. I bet they don't two foot it.

Again ask them how they are driving they regular cars. we aren't driving 20

0+ mph. they are also trained professionals. they aren't jumping from a man ual to an automatic.

What you fail to realize just because you drive very well with two feet doe sn't mean everyone else will. The majority of the people will be riding the ir brakes & gas pedals. It's also proven that elderly people tend to get mo re confused so if they drive with two feet, they are more likely to press t he wrong pedal.

uvers, the driver may inadvertently step on the wrong pedal, or step on bot h simultaneously. In a crisis, we automatically do what we?ve been traine d to do. If you?ve made it a habit to use your left foot for braking, the n that?s what your brain will opt to do when trouble arises ? and that mistake can be fatal.

u'll be pressing on the brake & gas at the same time. Tell me I'm wrong. Y ou can't!

out being skilled, it's about being safe.

My normal reaction is to press the brake and use my left leg to brace mysel f. I've never gotten the pedals mixed up.

this is your opinion. Maybe one day it'll be true.

so 95% of the world is driving improperly? Get real.

LIke I said, the majority of the people will be riding their brakes. It's a nice theory though.

You drive your way, and I'll drive mine.. Remember you are in the minority , so something must be wrong with that way of driving or they would teach t wo feet driving to everyone.

Reply to
m6onz5a

edal when he means to step on the brake, I think one easy way is to replace the spring holding the gas pedal with one with a higher force constant. On ce he's driven the car for some months, change it back. This won't prevent the problem. But it could save a life, or change a serious injury to just a bump on the head. Any comments?

right and you won't have any problems.

? two foot drivers love doing this.

I'd advise that noone buys a stick if the dead pedal setup is dumb. Me I'd prefer no dead pedal at all with left foot floating in the vast spaces left of the clutch pedal but if dead pedal rest is recessed far enou gh that's fine too.

I guess an adjustable dead pedal is a good way to please just about any dri ver. Do you wanna car with 4 petals?

Reply to
isquat

Who do you think keeps driving thru the front of stores? It's proven. They say "I was pushing on the BRAKE" and yet the evidence is clear, they were pushing on the accelerator, that's why the engine revved up, the car raced forward, and they crashed thru the store.

Nor have I. So what? That doesn't mean you couldn't drive better if you used BOTH feet.

IT's true whether you, or I, or anyone else does it or not. Just as the benefit of launching properly in drag race is "true" whether people learn that skill or not. The ones who learn it win ore races. The ones who learn to use BOTH feet and maximize their abilities can drive better. Doesn't mean they will. Apparently you feel you are not capable of learning the skill of using both feet and using that skill safely. That's certainly your choice. You know your limitations better than I do so if you say you are incapable I believe you.

I never said improperly. They are driving at a capacity that is less than most of them are capable of achieving. Somme people are content to be less than they could be. You appear to be one of them.

That's just BS you use to justify your lack of skill. I don't see one in 100,000 people ride their brake. Next you'll be saying radio's should be outlawed in cars because some guy you saw once somewhere someplace ran out of his lane and you *think* it was because he was tunning his radio.

I've never said otherwise. I just was pointing out that most people fail to achieve their maximum potential. You seem happy to be in that group. Do the rest of your driving skills mirror the same "It's good enough to get by" attitude? Cuz if your point is, and it seems to be, that most peoples skills are "good enough to get by" I won't argue that point.

And yes, I am in the minority of drivers who have enough interest in driving that I want to maximize my skills at using the equipment I'm driving. You're one of the very few people I've run into who thinks trying to excel at something is a bad thing and would advise others not to try.

Reply to
Ashton Crusher

Yes, but these are the same people who press the brake pedal on the highway and get rear-ended because they thought they were pushing on the gas.

I don't think the problem is the user interface. I don't think the problem is limited to just the gas pedal. I think the problem is simply that some people are not competent to drive.

--scott

Reply to
Scott Dorsey

er pedal confused. You can get just as confused with two feet. Especially a s you get older. This is proven!

Again the majority of the people are elderly. You make it sound like thei r is no way someone can get confused using two feet when in fact people get their left & right mixed up all of the time.

their regular cars. I bet they don't two foot it.

200+ mph. they are also trained professionals. they aren't jumping from a manual to an automatic.

doesn't mean everyone else will. The majority of the people will be riding their brakes & gas pedals. It's also proven that elderly people tend to get more confused so if they drive with two feet, they are more likely to pres s the wrong pedal.

aneuvers, the driver may inadvertently step on the wrong pedal, or step on both simultaneously. In a crisis, we automatically do what we?ve been tra ined to do. If you?ve made it a habit to use your left foot for braking, then that?s what your brain will opt to do when trouble arises ? and th at mistake can be fatal.

you'll be pressing on the brake & gas at the same time. Tell me I'm wrong . You can't!

about being skilled, it's about being safe.

Hmmm I've never heard of people in auto accidents saying I hit the gas inst ead of the brake. When I tense up in an accident situation I do tense up with my right foot on the brake and my left foot is tensed up on the floorb oard for support. with your driving style you have no way to support your self besides mashing the brake pedal with your left foot. So, is your right foot just going to sit there and do nothing?? Chances are it will also ten se up mashing the gas pedal.

self. I've never gotten the pedals mixed up.

Christ again you are comparing apples to oranges.

I'm perfectly capable of learning to drive with two feet, but I feel it's n ot safer.

Here is an example: I went to dinner last night and my friend drove. I happened to look down and he's using his left foot on the brake. At the traffic light he was real jerky with the brake & gas (I noticed he was pressing them both a couple o f times at the same time while waiting to make a left turn). I didn't feel safe.

Again their is a reason drivers ed doesn't teach two foot driving. You just don't want to accept that.

s a nice theory though.

you don't see people riding their brakes because NO ONE is using two feet!

You must also think cell phone use while driving is ok too, right? Distrac ted driving is distracted driving.

ity, so something must be wrong with that way of driving or they would teac h two feet driving to everyone.

start holding a picket sign telling everyone to drive with two feet. Maybe you'll get your way one day.

Reply to
m6onz5a

And dragging the brakes can heat them up and cause them to fade when you really need them.

I've driven behind a few people riding their brakes and I can smell the hot brake pads.

Reply to
Paul Hovnanian P.E.

Why is it annoying if the guy in front keeps flickering the brake light? Guys like that tend to do all kinds of goofy and crazy things. I keep my distance and wait to see if they do anything really dumb. It's guys like that who make driving fun.

Reply to
dsi1

u'll be pressing on the brake & gas at the same time. Tell me I'm wrong. Y ou can't!

out being skilled, it's about being safe.

I decided to do a little test.

I drove with both feet to get a feel of what you're talking about. I came to the conclusion that it was real uncomfortable having my left foot cover ing the brake constantly. I wanted to rest my foot either on the brake peda l, or move it away to a more comfortable spot. So, by me moving it away my reaction time wouldn't be any better than if I used my right foot on the br ake pedal.

I seriously doubt you keep the brake pedal covered every second you're driv ing.

Reply to
m6onz5a

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 06:07:30 -0700 (PDT), m6onz5a wrote:

No, I don't keep it in position all the time. Out cruising on the highway it will be sitting on the floor just like yours would be when you only use your right foot for both. In that situation there's no particular advantage, if a deer jumps out you have to move your left foot (in my case) or your right foot (in your case) over to the brake pedal. The advantage comes in situations where you have reason to believe something *might* come up but it could be anywhere in the next quarter mile or 5 miles. So you position your foot. Sure it will feel funny when it's not something you are used to doing but really no different then if you were wanting to be ready to up or down shift and so moved your foot over the clutch pedal but weren't ready to push it in yet and maybe would never do so for that instance. So you are ready. Lets say you see a sign that says "Deer Crossing Next 5 miles". You might position your foot. You can do that if you use the left foot but realistically you can't do it if you only use the right foot, you would wind up coasting to a stop or lurching forward and coasting over and over. One of the things you want to do is move your left foot periodically when you do have it positioned, you don't want to just hold it there because a sort of nerve tiredness sets in (it's a known phenomenon but I forget the name for it) that will slow down any movement. So every 20 seconds or so you rotate it off to the left and then back or some other movement, all the while you are keeping the right foot steady on the gas. This same nerve effect is happening to your right foot too when you are on a long stretch at steady speed and if you only use the right foot its going to slow down your reaction-action time when something happens and you need to brake. But to relieve your right foot you'd have to be coming off and back on the pedal 2 or 3 times a minute and that's not a smooth driving style. Similarly, in rush hour traffic you can have your left foot "ready to go" if someone zooms in front of you.. you need to move it every 20 seconds or so in that case also. It becomes second nature, just like using the clutch when shifting does. In "normal" driving my foot is probably positioned over the brake about 50 percent of the time "just in case". I know you can only take my word for it but it lets me quickly AND SMOOTHLY brake in situations were right foot only braking becomes a jerk fest of on the gas on the brake on the gas on the brake.

As I said earlier, if you can shave a quarter second off the reaction-action time that's 22 feet on the average highway. I think a quarter second is very conservative but I don't want to overstate it.

22 feet is easily the difference between the distance it takes to stop from 60 mph with sticky high dollar tires and average tires, about 122 feet versus 144 feet. And if you already have the high dollar tires you still get effectively a 22 foot shorter 0 - 60 stop then you would if you just used your right foot.

Clearly its not something people NEED to do.... after all, people who can barely drive a car are out there right now driving around doing far far worse at what they do than I'm sure you do using your current techniques and all of them get by. And more than likely a good number of them would become worst drivers if you asked them to actually use their left foot for something including if you stuck them in a stick shift car and they had to use their left foot for shifting.

Reply to
Ashton Crusher

ame to the conclusion that it was real uncomfortable having my left foot co vering the brake constantly. I wanted to rest my foot either on the brake p edal, or move it away to a more comfortable spot. So, by me moving it away my reaction time wouldn't be any better than if I used my right foot on the brake pedal.

I have a pair of white Army surplus 'Mickey Mouse' boots. (If you know what they are?) With those boots on, no problem with pressing two pedals at the same time.

Reply to
JR

In a car with a manual transmission you should be able to hit the brake and gas with the same foot at the same time in normal shoes. I consider a car that you cannot do this in to be defective.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

But how well can you control both while doing this? The motorcycle arrangement is better, where fine throttle and front brake control are possible at the same time.

Reply to
T0m $herman

In any reasonably well designed car it goes like this:

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Although I have owned cars in which that is somewhere between clumsy and impossible.

Reply to
AMuzi

That is hardly the level of fine control that one can achieve while trail-braking into a corner on a motorcycle, where it is needed to control the pitch of the bike to maintain optimal traction and preserve ground clearance. Freddie Spencer basically won his world championships by having finer throttle and brake control than anyone else, so it is not a trivial consideration.

Reply to
T0m $herman

But why do you think it's harder in a car, or at least one that's configured properly for heel/toe? Both take lots and lots of practice to do well.

Reply to
Bill Vanek

Can you do precise throttle and brake control simultaneously in a car? Crude compared to the level one can achieve on a motorcycle.

But of course it is less necessary in a modern car than a motorcycle.

Reply to
T0m $herman

Can *I* do a better job of precise throttle and brake control on a car than a motorcycle? Definitely. But then again I've been driving stickshifts ever since I could drive a car (in fact the first car I ever drove was a stick.) I pretty much suck at riding a motorcycle, I would rate my skills as "adequate" as in "I can make the thing move down the road without being ludicrously dangerous, but that's about it."

Your mileage, of course, may vary.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

That is hardly a description of an adequate skill level to be riding a motorcycle on the road. A motorcycle rider who takes a purely reactive approach as so many drivers do is asking to be in an accident. I would agree with the quoted 3 to 5 times the mental activity is required to ride at the same level as when driving.

Reply to
T0m $herman

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