Parking lot fun and learning

Hey everyone,

I just want your take on this. I am 18 years old and every now and then I take my little car to a parking lot near my house where I just have fun learning more about driving than anyone ever wanted to teach me. I know it is private property so is it actually illegal to do this? Could I get cited for some sort of reckless driving by the man in blue even though I go in when there is absolutely nothing in there except for beautiful asphalt? I live in Virginia if it makes a diff.

Thanks, JP SilverBullet

Reply to
JP
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|Hey everyone, | |I just want your take on this. I am 18 years old and every now and then I |take my little car to a parking lot near my house where I just have fun |learning more about driving than anyone ever wanted to teach me. I know it |is private property so is it actually illegal to do this? Could I get cited |for some sort of reckless driving by the man in blue even though I go in |when there is absolutely nothing in there except for beautiful asphalt? I |live in Virginia if it makes a diff.

JP What you need is to find a local autocross club. It's much like what you are doing, it's cheap, and you will learn a lot about car control and make a lot of new friends. start with

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look for the Virginia chapter. Rex in Fort Worth

Reply to
Rex B

I know I got a ticket for noise pollution for doing burn-out in a parking lot.

Reply to
Punch

Good. You were making a nuisance of yourself; you got a ticket. Doing a burnout is not part of safe or responsible driving in any weather conditions.

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

The owner could go after you for trespassing if he/she so desired, and could also hold you responsible for any damages to the parking lot (rear or imagined).

Generally traffic laws don't apply unless your state has specific statutes relating to operating a motor vehicle on private property (most don't).

Reply to
E. Meyer

Depends on how the laws are written. In my state, many of the traffic laws say "...where the public has access or right of access...", thus, even though it may technically be privately owned, if there are no barriers preventing access by the public (which, if there were, *he* would not be able to gain access lawfully) then he could still be subject to charges of reckless operation.

A lot depends on the cops as well, and on his attitude toward them should they find themselves compelled to enquire as to his behavior.

Reply to
Arthur Dent

Rex kinda beat me to it but I was going to say a buddy used to be a member of an autocross club and on a monthly basis, the club would use one of the parking lots at school (university) and set up a course. The one day I went to watch, a couple of guys lost it and hit the curb. One broke a rim and the other just bent it but I'd have to say "reckless" could have been used to describe the driving but no one ever bothered them. They may have had permission from the school and been a sanctioned club. I don't know but apparently reckless driving on private property isn't against the law (not in Texas anyway).

bb

Reply to
bobby

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:30:26 -0600, bobby wrote:

| | |Rex B wrote: |> |> On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:21:09 -0500, "JP" wrote: |> |> |Hey everyone, |> | |> |I just want your take on this. I am 18 years old and every now and then I |> |take my little car to a parking lot near my house where I just have fun |> |learning more about driving than anyone ever wanted to teach me. I know it |> |is private property so is it actually illegal to do this? Could I get cited |> |for some sort of reckless driving by the man in blue even though I go in |> |when there is absolutely nothing in there except for beautiful asphalt? I |> |live in Virginia if it makes a diff. |> |> JP |> What you need is to find a local autocross club. It's much like what you |> are doing, it's cheap, and you will learn a lot about car control and make a lot |> of new friends. start with

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look for the Virginia chapter. |> Rex in Fort Worth | |Rex kinda beat me to it but I was going to say a buddy used to be a member of |an autocross club and on a monthly basis, the club would use one of the parking |lots at school (university) and set up a course. The one day I went to watch, |a couple of guys lost it and hit the curb. One broke a rim and the other just |bent it but I'd have to say "reckless" could have been used to describe the |driving but no one ever bothered them. They may have had permission from the |school and been a sanctioned club. I don't know but apparently reckless |driving on private property isn't against the law (not in Texas anyway).

An organized autocross by a reputable club - SCCA, PCA, BMWCCA, Equipe Rapide etc - is about as safe as it gets. Sites with curbs and light poles are avoided whenever possible. Courses are carefully laid out so that runoff areas do not include hard objects. Damage to a vehicle from such contact is almost unheard of. truly reckless driving is not condoned. Learning car control by exploring

- and exceeding - the limits of adhesion are encouraged. And sites are rented in all cases that I have been aware of. I autocrossed for 20 years on and off, as did my wife and later both my kids. It's a family activity, for people from 6 to 86. I know at least one occasion where that experience probably saved my daughter's life. She later thanked me for letting her autocross when younger. Rex in Fort Worth

Reply to
Rex B

I have to agree that what I experienced was not really reckless but there was lots of tire squeeling and sliding and I'd expect a police officer would call this reckless if done on the street. My observation being that the police didn't bother them and even the campus cops left them alone. I believe the entrances to this parking lot were blocked, but I don't recall (this was in

1982 or so). bb
Reply to
bobby

On a funny note (humorous to me anyway), my buddy had lots of autocross trophies from the club as I think he always won his class (whatever the heck it was). He drove a 79 Chevy crew cab one ton dually pickup.

Reply to
bobby

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 15:50:25 -0600, bobby wrote:

| | |Rex B wrote: |> |> On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:30:26 -0600, bobby wrote: |> |> | |> | |> |Rex B wrote: |> |>

|> |> On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:21:09 -0500, "JP" wrote: |> |>

|> |> |Hey everyone, |> |> | |> |> |I just want your take on this. I am 18 years old and every now and then I |> |> |take my little car to a parking lot near my house where I just have fun |> |> |learning more about driving than anyone ever wanted to teach me. I know it |> |> |is private property so is it actually illegal to do this? Could I get cited |> |> |for some sort of reckless driving by the man in blue even though I go in |> |> |when there is absolutely nothing in there except for beautiful asphalt? I |> |> |live in Virginia if it makes a diff. |> |>

|> |> JP |> |> What you need is to find a local autocross club. It's much like what you |> |> are doing, it's cheap, and you will learn a lot about car control and make a |> lot |> |> of new friends. start with

formatting link
look for the Virginia chapter. |> |> Rex in Fort Worth |> | |> |Rex kinda beat me to it but I was going to say a buddy used to be a member of |> |an autocross club and on a monthly basis, the club would use one of the parking |> |lots at school (university) and set up a course. The one day I went to watch, |> |a couple of guys lost it and hit the curb. One broke a rim and the other just |> |bent it but I'd have to say "reckless" could have been used to describe the |> |driving but no one ever bothered them. They may have had permission from the |> |school and been a sanctioned club. I don't know but apparently reckless |> |driving on private property isn't against the law (not in Texas anyway). |> |> An organized autocross by a reputable club - SCCA, PCA, BMWCCA, Equipe Rapide |> etc - is about as safe as it gets. Sites with curbs and light poles are avoided |> whenever possible. Courses are carefully laid out so that runoff areas do not |> include hard objects. Damage to a vehicle from such contact is almost unheard |> of. truly reckless driving is not condoned. Learning car control by exploring |> - and exceeding - the limits of adhesion are encouraged. And sites are rented |> in all cases that I have been aware of. |> I autocrossed for 20 years on and off, as did my wife and later both my kids. |> It's a family activity, for people from 6 to 86. I know at least one occasion |> where that experience probably saved my daughter's life. She later thanked me |> for letting her autocross when younger. |> Rex in Fort Worth | |I have to agree that what I experienced was not really reckless but there was |lots of tire squeeling and sliding and I'd expect a police officer would call |this reckless if done on the street. My observation being that the police |didn't bother them and even the campus cops left them alone. I believe the |entrances to this parking lot were blocked, but I don't recall (this was in |1982 or so).

LOL In 1962 lawsuits were a rarity, and all tires squealed at the slightest provocation. Rex in Fort Worth

Reply to
Rex B

Except for cleaning the slicks in the waterbox at the local dragstrip... In which case its not only safe and responsible, but necessary to maintain control of the car during the actual race run... :-)

Reply to
Steve

I am into 4x4's these days, specifically Jeeps.

I highly recommend any new 4x4 owner to go in the first snowstorm to an empty parking lot and go nuts to see how their vehicle behaves.

A 4x4 handles like nothing else anyone has driven.

I have done this with every new vehicle I have owned and have garnered the attention of the local police.

I have been told I could be charged for 'stunting', even in a private lot with public access. This is in Canada.

I explained to the officer that I was just pushing my 'new' to me vehicle to it's limits in a 'safe' environment so I would know what it does in real life on the road in case of an emergency.

The police 'liked' my explanation and said they wished more people did the same.

I bet there are police reading this group!

They should give 'their' professi>

Reply to
Mike Romain

LOL, but even 4x4s have limits. I was driving up the Interstate one day, in a heavy snow, the highway was completely covered. You couldn't see the markings, must have been several inches deep. I was pushing hard against the limits of driveability at about 50 to 55 when this fool yuppie in what appeared to be a fairly new Jeep flew past me. I shook my head and thought "This idiot is going to get himself in trouble thinking he can do anything with 4 wheel drive." Sure enough, a few miles up the road he was standing in the median looking at his Jeep...with its tires up in the air.

First good snow of the season I usually try to find an empty lot to refresh my winter driving skills.

Reply to
Arthur Dent

Just suppose for a minute that YOU are the owner of that parking lot.

Wear & tear: Did you pay for enough asphalt to provide for normal, low-speed vehicle motion? So what happens to the surface when somebody does high-speed wheelies or doughnuts? Seems only reasonable that that kind of use will lead to shorter life of the surface, meaning you have to pay more per year just to have a parking lot.

Markings: You come in one morning to find a bunch of tire tracks and doughnuts. Do you think of how nice those cowboys were to provide their asphalt artwork, or do you think about how much you paid six months ago to have the lot lines painted and striped?

Your daily bread: Suppose you are a shop owner next to that parking lot. Does the thought ever cross your mind that you might be out of business, with no money coming in, and arguing with your insurance company, all because one of those "self-educating drivers" lost it and ended up embedded in your store-front?

Legal exposure: Oh sure, you would NEVER sue the lot owner if anything happened to you or your vehicle during your educational process. But hey, it wasn't YOUR fault that the damn man-hole cover was loose, and you flipped over, clipping off a fire hydrant. They should of had better protective bars next to the hydrant! So now the spray of water has collapsed the roof over three stores, and you're looking at liability for major structural and contents damage. Even if you fell down the man-hole and drowned, your estate is gonna sue everybody in sight, from the vehicle manufacturer to the man-hole cover manufacturer to the hydrant plumber to the roofing company, and every one of their friends too!

So, as the property owner, you can be a nice guy, and let this use of your property continue. Or, you can bitch to city hall, and have the cops told to be more vigilant in the wee hours of the night. And just for perspective, who do you think speaks louder, you, or the guy who pays thousands of bucks a year in property taxes and generates even more in sales taxes, and maybe runs the mayor's re-election campaign?

Ed

Reply to
Ed Price

Well said Seems start out with discretionary rules until 'someone loses an eye' Then the crackdown because grandma got her coat dirty from a flying stone from the guy doing donuts and sued the parking lot owner for allowing this to happen. Or as you say, the car flipped over injuring the driver, but the lot owner is to blame.

Reply to
Rick De Visser

Listen up Ed,

I don't drive fast, i dont burn donuts, i dont make noise and i dont degrade the appearance or take away from the business of the parking lot owner. What's more? I don't like lawyers nor do I like going to court; There is no reason for me to sue because I am not crazy. What you seemed to miss is the fact that this is a learning experience, not a chance to use the precious adrenaline and testosterone that my body makes. Everything is controlled and I am merely trying to get experience. The same kind of experience that may keep me from damaging your car in a feat of teen stupidity. What my search for knowledge seems to take into consideration is the lack of interest from adults and individuals like yourself to provide us, the youth with a chance. Where I live, there aren't even driving schools that will teach you how to drive a stick, much less to show you driving technique.

Finally, this is my car and life we are talking about and my wallet is not particularly that large either. So changing tires every month due to marking the precious asphalt is out of the question. So is weekly brake change and costly engine repair from all of the stress involved. Also I don't think I am ready yet to practice being an organ donor so I value my life and wont perish in some hollywood-like stunt involving a man-hole cover and the car flipping upside down. Anyway thanks for your death sentence and criticism, I am sure I will be a better person because of it. This is the voice of the youth, I hope you can hear it.

JP SilverBullet

Reply to
JP

By the way,

If Stephen Speilberg ever goes on sick leave, you would make a fine replacement judging from your lawsuit scenario involving everything from fences, man-hole covers, fire hydrants and even grandma walking down the street. Seriously, maybe you should seek a future in cinema, i heard it has high yields these days.

JP SilverBullet

Reply to
JP

Ah yes the "Voice of Youth", uttered in this instance by the "Silver Bullet." (I used to speak that language to your grandmother, in the back seat of my 63 Chevy!) Indeed, your viewpoint is infantile and self-centered. The fact that you took a simple, humorous exposition of possibilities as a personal attack shows the shallowness of your character.

In your mind, the world exists solely to provide the Silver Bullet with learning experiences. Fortunately, you will obtain much experience and wisdom, as you are obviously beginning with so little.

Let's play one more "learning experience" game with you car. Let's suppose there are budding young auto detailers roaming your town, seeking only "learning experiences." One night, they choose YOUR beloved POS to learn on. Have you now discovered the concept of private property, and your right to control it? Can you now extrapolate the experience of having your property used without your permission, and in ways you may not want, to the concept of a parking-lot owner's rights?

BTW, if you can't, then this is a sign that your mind is still quite self-centered and infantile. It's likely that you will age, but learning isn't guaranteed. Getting older, yet staying stupid, is one tough path!

Ed

Reply to
Ed Price

The Silver Bullshit could learn a lot about life by sitting in on a liability trial at his local courthouse. See for yourself what goes down, see if you think it's fair, but remember what the consequences are when the judge closes the proceedings. I'll give you a hint; somebody, and sometimes both somebodies, are out a lot of money.

As for cinematic payoffs; true, the yield is large, but the odds are very long. In Real Life (which you haven't quite entered yet), behavior is guided by consequences; criminal, civil and monetary.

If you work at it, you will eventually acquire the wisdom to discern Cinema from Real Life.

Ed

Reply to
Ed Price

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