pitman arm checvyvan G20, how to adjust?

"rasputin" wrote

What year is the vehicle? All the GM vans that I've worked on have no such thing as a "pitman arm adjustment". Often, when the pitman arm is replaced, the new pitman arm isn't quite the same as the old one, and you need to have the alignment checked and adjusted in order to get the steering wheel centered. This has nothing to with the mechanic "screwing up" other then the fact that he should have warned you that an alignment may be in order after replacing the pitman arm. Pitman arms have master splines, but they can be put on 4 different ways. But if it was installed 90 degree out, the vehicle would be undriveable.

Ian

If you needed to change the pitman arm I'm guessing that this van has a lot of hard miles on it. The second shop may not be trying to screw you after all - you may really need a new idler arm and ball joints. There are ways to get a good alignment done yourself but all of them take longer than 5 minutes.

nate

Actually, thats what original mechanic told me to do-get alignment, because part is not the same. Place I went to, told me I need to replace idle arm,also ball joints. They told me that just alignment not goint to straight my steeerint wheel. Seems like they wanted to get more money, shell I just ask for alignment without telling that my pitarm been replaced.

Thank you very much for reply.

Mikhail.

It;s Chevy Van G20, 1991. Actually, thats what original mechanic told me to do-get alignment, because part is not the same. Place I went to, told me I need to replace idle arm,also ball joints. They told me that just alignment not goint to straight my steeerint wheel. Seems like they wanted to get more money, shell I just ask for alignment without telling that my pitarm been replaced.

Thank you very much for reply.

"rasputin" wrote

I'm sure any competent alignment shop will be able to figure out the pitman arm has been replaced. There is always the danger that you will be "upsold" whenever you go to an alignment shop. And of course, they usually will refuse to perform an alignment unless you replace the parts they deem unsatisfactory. If they are honest, I don't blame them for this....they have to warranty/stand behind their alignment, so they will want to replace parts that are out of spec. Maybe you do need an idler...I can't tell without actually seeing the vehicle.

Ian

They can't align the front end if it has worn parts. Beware of anyone that takes your money for an alignment when you know you need ball joints. The shop wasn't trying to rip you off. In fact , consider yourself lucky if they didn't charge you a rack fee for putting t up and ispecting it. An alignment tech has a series of checks he has to do to make sure it can be aligned. They told you why they couldn't do a proper alignment. Another shop is likely to tell you the same thing. Don't tell them anything. Let them show you. Expect a rack fee.

Just 500$ seems a lot for all that stuff: ball joints, idle arm, alignment. I wanna try do it myself, but I'm not a mechanic. I have books thou:)

Thanks. Mikhail

I'm a nurse, not a mechanic; so, if I did it, you can too.

In 1980, I took my 100K mile 1970 Dodge Dart to a K-Mart mechanic who, for about ten bucks, showed me exactly what needed replacement. Two ball joints, a pitman arm, an idler arm, and both tie-rod ends (plus a universal joint in the drive train). That mechanic knew I had no money, so he kindly spent 30 minutes showing me all the parts that needed replacement and what tools I'd need.

I bought (for another ten bucks or so) a tool called a 'pitchfork' which I shoved between the ball joint and the bolt and slammed on with a heavy hammer until the joint separated. Ball joints & tie-rod ends screwed on easily (although the auto-parts store gave me two right ones instead of a left and a right, which cost me a day in the snow walking back & forth to the parts store). That was the day I learned they really didn't care what parts they gave you, as long as you paid for them. Ever since, I bring the old part in (if I can) to save the hassle.

The idler arm came off with a larger version of the pitchfork. The pitman arm was an altogether different beast. It had notches on the inside and couldn't be twisted and wouldn't drop down. Out in the cold, lying on my back on a frosty driveway, I spent hours on that pitman arm. But, it too yielded to persistance (persistance is free) and fell off with a very satisfying clang.

The universal joint, which looked like a cross with needle bearings inside a cap at each of the four ends, likewise yielded to a few well-placed hammer blows. Luckily, all parts reassembled quite easily. Then it was time for alignment of this decade-old Chrysler (aka a Dodge in disguise). I marked a line on the center of each tire tread (the tires were a new bias-ply brand from K-Mart or Sears) and adjusted the toe in simply by twisting the left and right tie-rod ends in opposite directions. I measured the 1/8 or 1/16 inch toe-in simply by having a length of string with two nails (one on each end) in the center of the tire tread (I got one of the kids in the neighborhood to hold one side while I measured & twisted with the other).

For camber and caster, I had to go professional. Unfortunately, I chose Sears Automotive Center. Since I had replaced all the parts myself, I watched the guy supposedly align the car on the rack. He seemed to mill around quite a bit, but, then, so were all the Sears mechanics, it seemed. However, when I got home, I crawled underneath and didn't see a thing different (I had yellow marks all over the place as I had marked everything in sight before I did the job).

When I brought it back to Sears to complain, I found out the ONLY ALIGNMENT THAT WAS CORRECT WAS THE TOE-IN WHICH I DID MYSELF! Sears didn't even do the alignment! It turned out they didn't even have CHARTS for cars older than ten years (mine was at the cutoff). The manager had to take MY NUMBERS for the caster and camber and ackerman angle (not that you can set the ackerman angle, but, you can measure it).

Lesson learned: Never trust an aligment shop without marking the shims yourself! (I've since gone Japanese, and, as there's not much to align anymore, I hope I will never need an alignment ever again as Sears proved you just can't trust the alignment guys). I also never bought another automotive part from Sears ever again (luckily CostCo took its place for batteries, tires, and oil). I still shudder to think how many thousands of people must get screwed every year for alignments they pay for, but never get.

In summary, I can definately vouch for the fact that an amateur can replace tie rod ends, pitman arms, idler arms, universal joints, & ball joints. And, I can vouch for the fact that setting toe-in is trivial (with a helper & string).

But, I'd like to ask the group if caster & camber are easy to check by a do-it-yourselfer? Last I checked (years ago), the equipment (Bear ?) cost more than 500 bucks (too much for a do-it-yourselfer) for just one model; and, even so, most cars (I only know Japanese nowadays) don't even have adjustments for caster and camber, I believe.

Is caster & camber measurable & fixable (1990 Q45) nowadays by a do-it-yourselfer?

Alora Duncan

I've always known it as a "pickle fork," but YMMV.

Actually the left and right are identical. It's "inner" and "outer" that make a difference. Sounds like what happened is that one of your tie rods was installed "inside out." Found that on a '69 Valiant the hard way... (long story involving a pissed off neighbor and the City of Pittsburgh deleted...)

Sometimes you have to pull the engine or steering box to do the Pitman arm. Guess you must have had the slant six?

Yup... ran into the same thing in MI. Fortunately I found a rame shop that did a good job. Anyone recommend a shop here in MD (near DC/Annapolis?)

Oh my! :)

If you've got a dead level floor and some good bubble levels I'd think you could check camber fairly easily, at least close enough to get you into the ballpark. I'm not sure how you'd check caster though; although that is probably the least critical alignment measurement.

nate

"Nate Nagel" wrote

Huh? Caster is quite critical on GM trucks with upper and lower control arms. Caster adjustments will correct pulling problems far more readily then camber adjustments on said vehicles.

Maybe you are talking fwd cars with McPherson strut suspension... in that case, yes.

Ian