Pontiac 350?

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everyone but you knows where to find performance parts......

but....because you can afford a computer, an internet connection, have shown the wise of mastering typeing, shown you have remedial abilities in engine size comparisons, and yet have NOT obtained the remedial ability of "Google" everything.........

then.....

try this.........

or..............

call the local AutoZonedOut store........if money is an object.

~:~ MarshMonster ~sips his crownroyal...takes a toke.....and ponders all he could of been if he hadn't dropped outta school~ ~:~

Yes, I'm quite capable of doing a google search, but thanks for the advice. I thought asking for a SUGGESTION of a good place to buy parts might yield me some leads on where to look from someone in the know, instead of wading through the hundreds of hits returned on a search. Apparently that was asking too much.

Pontiac V8s are Pontiac V8s; externally good luck telling a 326 from a

455.

No; you'd be well into the water jacket. Just because the block is the same basic dimensions and architecture doesn't mean that they used the same casting cores for all engines. Even trying to overbore a 389 to a 400 isn't likely to work.

What are you trying to accomplish, what's the budget, and why a 350?

Unlike in the Chev world where the most common small-block buildup is a 350 (and big-block buildups are expensive so everyone goes with the small-block buildup), in the Pontiac world a 400 is the most common performance build, and the parts for 400s are the cheapest. The next- most-commonly built engine is the 455: not necessarily because it's the most easily-found engine these days (production ceased after '76) but because there are lots of cubic inches to work with.

I don't even know how well a large-valve aftermarket head would work on the relatively small-bore 350 due to valve shrouding. I can't say that I've ever heard of anyone doing this.

As far as parts go, there will be very few parts listed as 350 parts, although most 400 parts will indeed work on a 350. In fact I'd think that *all* 400 parts, other than the block, pistons and rings, will work on a 350 (although like I said the large-valve heads may be marginal).

That being said, Pontiac performance parts are expensive. The stock rods on a 350 will not be anything to write home about, and may not like to be revved much above 5500-6000 RPM. With some exceptions that you're not likely to encounter, Pontiac rods are cast and not forged, and don't hold up under high RPM. On the other hand, you don't have to spin a 455 much over 5000 RPM while still making lots of horsepower....

Now, if you and the guy are still keen on building a Pontiac engine, I commend you! (Sure you can drop in a Chev engine and make it work, but the Pontiac magazines won't feature your car, and Pontiac owners will come 'round and sniff. Of course you may not care what Pontiac owners think.)

Sources of further information:

Magazines: grab a copy of the latest Pontiac Enthusiast and High Performance Pontiac. Both will have lots of ads for Pontiac-specific parts, and Pontiac engine builders.

Books:

the latest Pontiac engine handbook; should give you tons tothink about. (If you come across cheap older copies of PeteMcCarthy's books, or the H-O Pontiac Performance Handbook, they areworth picking up although they pre-date the "modern" Pontiacperformance world with aftermarket aluminium heads, aftermarketblocks, cranks, and rods, etc.) Online: Performance Years forums at recommended a fair amount (I'm not much into web forums of anykind). Usenet groups alt.autos.camaro-firebird and alt.autos.pontiacmay help you a bit, but the quality is kind of not there any more. If you're really keen you (or the guy) could join the Poncho Power mailing list which you can find by googling....

In sum:

--if you are building a Pontiac engine for a Pontiac car, I commend you

--however you're much better off starting with a 400 or 455; the results will be better enough to make it worthwhile acquiring the core

400 (455 will cost more)

Oh, yes, if come across

and are enthused by the info there, I'd strongly suggest you ask around on the forums/mailing lists for opinions about this one particular Pontiac performance shop. I have heard plenty of second-hand stories and they all trend very strongly to one side of the the satisfied/dissatisfied scale....

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1 ...yw

2....are you not happy with the lead i gave you?

3...you did NOT ask too much.

4...you're exhibiting the traits of a troll now.

5...number 4 is an opinion...based solely on the fact that YOU suggest that you are capable of using a search end, yet you wasted good hyperspace by asking questions whose answers are readily available, requested resources that are KNOWN to exist by those with menial search capabilities, and........ the fact that you bothered to reply to me in a suggestively authorative and hostile manner.

6....i'm haven a hoot of a time....bout you?

~~

00 L O

~:~ MarshMonster ~sips his mushroom tea......and pours you a stiff one....~ ~(imakemegiggle)~ ~:~

Thank you, I had a feeling that might be the case but wasn't sure.

Basically, a street driven pontiac 350, 350+ HP on unleaded pump gas, no nitrous, blower etc. Pretty simple really. As far as why, because the customer is always right, I'll build whatever they want.

I notice it was a rather small bore for it's size, and the same as a

307/283 chev, which I have built several, and they don't seem to suffer from the valve shrouding like the 305's etc. do.

I tend to "build" any motors first on dyno sim software, and at the horsepower level he's looking for, 5500 would likely be higher than even necessary. Are the pontiac rods the archilles heal of pontiac motors like they are chevy's? ARP rod bolts considered a necessity then?

This was exactly the kind of info I was looking for. I mainly build chevy dirt racing motors and have lots of sources for parts on those, this was the type of insight I was looking for, thank you.

Probably moreso that with Chev engines. Chev rods are forged; Pontiac rods are cast. The bottom end will start to go egg-shaped at some RPM point.

Here's someone else's take:

The main reason that people don't build 350s is because for the same or less money spent on a 400 you will get 14.3% more torque out of the

400, all other parameters being the same. In the past, 400s have been just as plentiful as 350s so it just didn't make any sense to spend more money for less power. Nowadays with all Pontiac engines becoming increasingly scarce I think we will see more 350s being built as people will build what comes in the car they buy rather than spend a bunch of time and several hundred dollars tracking down a 400 or larger engine. As real estate values climb, wrecking yards get squeezed out and with stricter emissions laws all over the country, the old cars get crushed before people can scavenge their parts, not to mention that every year there are fewer 400 blocks left in serviceable condition.

As for a 350 horse 350, it shouldn't, in theory, be all that difficult. The power is in the heads. If you have heads that flow well and a decent compression ratio, then the rest of the parts for a 350/350 are readily available.

Of course, heads that match a 350 then become a problem. The big valve heads have their own set of problems when run on 350s. The valves really are too big for the bore size. Chevy smallblocks don't have 2.11" intake valves and 1.77" exhausts. They have 2.02"/1.60" valves and seem to do very well with that valve size. The Pontiac exhaust valve is plenty big enough in the small valve heads but it would be easy to increase the intake valve to 2.02". A good street porting job and the heads should flow plenty. Then there's compression of course. The only high compression 350 Pontiac built was the '68-'69 350 HO. Heads for those are rare. Most small valve heads don't have small enough chambers, and as mentioned, the big valve heads have valves that are too big. They'll work, but they're bigger than necessary and do suffer from shrouding. That said, the KRE 65cc heads would be a great choice on a

350.

So, it's definitely more difficult and takes more research and thought to build a 350, which means more money, too. Still, I'm willing to bet that in coming years you'll see more of them, and like I said, in theory a 350 horse 350 should be relatively easy, if you have the right recipe and don't mind spending a little more to get less torque.

building a pontiac 350 for a guy and need some help

your kind of a jerk. dont get out much?

i am also building a 350 pontiac you can do much with them no forgedpistons and the rods are weak a 400 would bea better build still a 2 bolt main all pontiac are.