Questions about the trade from someone interested.

Ian,

As for the $400 tool upgrade. It's $400 more than you get. I get a 30% discount off of Snap-on's retail price, with no tax. We go through Snap-On industrial. I don't pay any tax because it's for a non-for-profit organization. And yes, these tools are mine to keep. You will pay retail.

The city provides special tools, including impacts, and air ratchets. I need to provide the basic hand tools. So,... my impact and air ratchet are at home now, for side jobs.

If I need a special tool to do the job, the city buys it.

Thank you, GMdude

BS

I have taken none. But I feel good that they are there. In case of a catastrofic event.

I don't have to buy ratchets, they are provided. Impacts are provided too, and all the sockets that go with them.

Yes, they are paid, and I can take as many unpaid days off as I want.

Are you off on Martin Luther King, or 4th of July? The day after Thanksgiving? Any of the presidents birthdays?

BS BS BS

More BS, Lazy.

I have a life, but I'm not lazy like you. When I get called to work, I go, and get paid well for it.

More BS

Even more BS

After you factor in your flat rate, you come up flat. Any GM dealership mechanic that can claim over $60k per year, would be a thief, that preys on his customers. One that tells them they need services they don't need.

"GMdude" wrote

Sorry....it just bothers me when techs that have been in dealerships and didn't like it....make it out to be the worst thing possible in the trade. It's not the worst place to be in the trade....in fact, I'd say it's one of the better places to be. For all the BS that goes on at the dealerships...it's still a great place to learn about one product and how to repair them.

You are carrying the "lazy" thing into more places then I was referring to. I was simply saying that the fellows that want to make "an hours wage for an hour worked" are often the guys that couldn't cut it at a dealership. Flat rate and warranty flat rate can be brutal at times, but it's possible to do quite well at it.

Again, sorry.....I'm not as hostile as I probably appeared in the written word. While I know all about the negatives of the dealership end of the trade....I would still recommend a young tech work in the dealerships before I would recommend that they work at independent shops.

Ian

"GMdude" wrote

I believe that you have mis-quoted me here. I stated that I fell into the trade.....mainly because I had no real clue what I wanted to after high school....sound familiar to anyone who is at that age...or those that can remember being that age?

I had no idea that it could be a good way to get "good pay" when I started. So "good pay" was certainly not my motivation. Money has never really motivated me...other then the average motivations of needing a roof over the head, food on the table..clothes on the back...etc.

I'm glad you have a "passion" for your job. I have "passions" too, just not for the work that I do. Which is why I tend to get immersed in other activities outside of work...those end up being my "passions". Plus, even if I don't have a "passion" about the actual type of work that I do....I do have a "passion" to be the best at whatever it is I do. That works too.

Ian

"GMdude" wrote

Now why would you say this? You do not what dealership that I work at. I happen to work in Alberta, where the labour laws state that I must be paid 2 weeks vacation after one year, 3 weeks after 5 years. The 4 weeks is not in the law books, but the dealership that I work for does pay 4 weeks after 10 years. Some do, some don't, this one does.

Our dealership has an excellent in house short term disablity fund that will look after you until you move onto their long term plans or you are back to work. That's good enough for me.

That's a good deal, since our dealership does not provide items like that.

Probably not, but then again, I live in Canada, we have slightly different holidays. I believe that we have 10 statuatory holidays in the year.

Again, why would you say this? You simply do not know...you have to take my word for it as I take your word that you are getting all the benefits you mention.

As of Nov 15, my gross pay was 72,758....you are quite welcome to extrapolate that over 12 months. If you really want, I can take a picture of the pay stub and send you the picture.

By the way, this is not really that big of a deal up here in Canada where I work. There are plenty....I mean, plenty of dealership technicians that make even more then this.

No, it's not BS. We have to get paid time and a half if we are asked to work overtime. It's very rare....nobody is that interested in working overtime...but on the rare occasions when we are flooded with rental car PDI's, then we get paid overtime. Actually, we get paid the flat rate time that we can make on those PDI's "and" we get the overtime on the hours we spent in the dealership. If you understand what I'm saying, this works out to more then even 2X overtime pay. But not many of us feel like working overtime. I've got better things to do...like argue with you on the newsgroups (grin)

I repeat my original question....who wants to work on a holiday? I'm even going to take some days off around Christmas and New Years this year. Who wants to be wrenching at that time of the year? I think I'll be sampling my homemade wine instead.

Ok, now you are starting to sound like a broken record. I gave you the pension thing....we don't have that, and never have.

Look, I realize that you are in the States, and you guys are really back asswards down there. We "do" have these benefits up here at our dealership. I did make one mistake, the company pays for half of our Alberta Health Insurance (remember, we have universal health care here in Canada) and they pay half of the extended medical benefits....dental, prescriptions, etc...stuff that isn't covered under our Canadian health care system. Still quite reasonable for dealerships.

You are wrong. Now if you said to me....."any GM dealership mechanic that can claim over 14 hrs a day average, would be a thief"....I might be willing to agree with you. But the fact is that I do make that kind of money, it's nothing that is particularly earth shattering up here, and I am not a thief, I do not prey on my customers....and I do not recommend services that they don't need. You will just have to trust me on that one.

Ian

Back from GA, figured this was as good a place as any to jump back in..

Your dealerships sound lots better then what I'm aware of here in the states.. but even so I agree that it probably would be a great place to learn about one product and how to repair them (using your words). And I probably would agree that it should be what an aspiring want-to-be-a-mechanic looks to for a great place for training and factory support.

Ian, understand that in many places here 'south of the border', civil service jobs are considered by many to be the 'dream job' for people who don't want to work for a living. It's just how it is. And I start working for the state tomorrow (grin). My position is a critical one.. I have to be there, no matter what. But that's what I agreed to when I accepted the position.

My Dad worked for the state.. started as a teenager and retired with over 45 years of service. In all honesty, I can't think of anything in the private sector where that might be possible now a days.

I'd probably second the dealership option vs. indie to a new tech.. to at least give them some perspective to decide with. I would also tell them to keep an eye out for a civil service position.. lots of advantages to both places.

As for lazy.. that's the public's perception of all government workers. Is it true? Yes and No.

Regards,

Jim

"Jim" wrote

From what I've seen and read on the internet over the past few years, it does appear that the dealership environment in Canada is superior to the same environment in the States. I still remember when I was apprenticing and taking courses at the trade school. Everyone warned me to stay away from the dealerships and flat rate. I mean....it took us two days to pull a transmission apart and put it back together.....that only pays a few hours on flat rate! Anyway, as with the whole trade, I kinda fell into a dealership for my first real job...and never looked back.

I understand only too well. We have the same type of civil service jobs up here. I do think that we have more laws that protect the average employee even within the private sector. Some of the stuff that I read about what techs get paid down south, and what their benefits are...(basically nil) is amazing. I don't have anything against anyone wanting to make the move towards the civil servant type of job. Believe me, it's discussed enough among the techs in our job. Other then the stupid shift work for the first 3-4 years, almost all of us would probably make the move. Especially as we age. I'm 44 years old and still have some good years left in me, but I'm certainly not nearly as spry as I used to be.

No, probably not. I'm not particularly loyal to any of the places I've worked, as there are no real benefits at any of them that you can't pick up somewhere else. There are no pensions in the private part of the trade, so that is not a consideration to worry about. I simply go where the money is and where the management will treat me correctly.

Both the indie and dealerships have their different ways of doing things. I've noticed that it's very difficult for an indie tech to make the adjustment to warranty flat rate. But I assume that there would be a learning curve the other way too.

I was really just razzing him a bit. Most government workers that I know, get a whole lot more money then their effort might justify. But the system is just set up that way.

Ian

Sorry Ian,

I was blowing off steam due to the "lazy" remark. It got under my skin. I should have waited for your reply.

GMdude

"GMdude" wrote

No problem....water under the bridge, my man. I tend to be a little thin skinned at times.

Ian

Ian,

I also did not know that you resided in Canada. I'm sure the labor laws are different there. Probably much better than in the U.S.

In the U.S., it's pretty much "every man for himself", as far as dealer work goes.

As for your earnings @ $72,758 Canadian, I come very close at base pay. If you factor in the exchange rate U.S. to Canada (1 U.S. dollar = 1.2988 Canadian today). In Canadian, I make $72,732.80. About $20 dollars less than you. If that is your base pay. That would be $56,000 U.S. $56K is my current annual income, with no commission.

So we are pretty much paid at the same scale. Go figure?

GMdude

P.S. The only plus to my employment is, I don't have to worry about "Flat-rate", as you call it. It's called book-time in the U.S. And I don't have to try to make flat rate time. I get paid by the hour. So next year I will receive $72,732.80 in Canadian, plus whatever overtime I work, which could be up to 300 hrs+ during winter. Perhaps now you could understand why I welcome the overtime.

This is not a competition between me and you. I find it as a comparison between nations, and pay rates among mechanics.

Aptitude for technology is only a small piece of the equation. He can always get a white collar job, maybe IT. Where all he has to know is how to bullshit, kiss ass and suck dick to get ahead.