R134a additives? Worthwhile or bunk?

Why not forget the 134a and just use freeze 12 or similar "drop in" replacement. Eliminates the worry over the oil and has better cooling properties then 134a. It's only about $8 a can on ebay.

Let's see...

FJC claims that Extreme Cold: Extends compressor life Improves Performance Speeds A/C Cooling Removes system moisture

That's pretty impressive for a pour-in product with no useful info on its MSDS sheet. If I were a skeptic, I might even think that Extreme Cold was some sort of snake oil.

Wait, Extreme Cold also: LOWERS DUCT TEMPERATURE UP TO 15%!

That can't be a lie! "Up to" could mean any change in duct temp from near infinity% to -15%, given the real number set and an "all things are possible" mentality. The only guarantee here is that Extreme Cold won't lower duct temps more than 15%. I would put money on it lowering duct temps by zero or less percent.

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Do I detect a note of sarcasm?

: )

There are other products that make the same claim. From what I see it does make some sense... breaks down the oil film in the evaporator so the refrigerant has a better surface contact.

Only considering it as part of a shipment of other items. I just want to know if using it is a bad idea. If it offers even a small improvement and little risk I'd probably use it.

Well... I already have the r134a. The only stuff we have available up here in Canada is Duracool and other propane based stuff. I guess I could get Freeze12 on eBay, but what is it made of?

I figure if I'm going to the trouble of evacuating, etc., I might as well flush the system and convert to R134a.

Mysterious, miraculous and poorly detailed products such as this always seem to work better when you believe they work.

If it did work really well...

Let's say for the sake of argument (Mazda reciever drier system, correct?) that your evaporator temp sensor is designed to keep the evap outer temp at about 34*F by cycling the A/C clutch. The wonder oil is installed, and as promised, it maxes out its claim by making your evap temp drop 15%. Oh well, the temp sensor still shuts the system off at 34*F.

Next case, CCOT system: the pressure switch on this theoretical car opens at 30 psi to protect from freezup and running into a vacuum. Magic elixir installed, the evap "gets colder", low side temp drops ergo low side pressure drops, and the clutch turns off earlier. D'oh!

Most A/C systems could freeze water on their evaporator (bad thing) if their shutoff mechanism was bypassed. You might as well just jump the temp sensor.

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Would you use it if it made your ac unserviceable by a qualified shop?

Because he may find it impossible to find a recovery machine that is set up to recover Freeze 12, and he may find himself liable for contaminating someone's recovered supply of R 12.

No such thing as a "drop in replacement."

Trades one worry for another. s for price, I'm currently paying $3 a pound for R-134a. $8 is like paying retail which he indicated he didn't want to do.

It's another contaminant, you're asking for trouble.

If you are looking for absolute best performance and a less leak-prone system use the R12 it was designed for.

Don

I recently converted my Reatta to R134a. I had to have a new compressor, as the old GM unit was leaking at the front seal. The new compressor specified that it was compatible with 12 or 134a, but that the use of other refrigerants would void the warranty. Clear enough choice, in my case.

At todays rates, it already is unserviceable by a qualified shop... Almost $500 to flush, evacuate and fill with R134a - no hardware changes, no new fittings, etc.

You've all convinced me... I'll pass on it.

I REALLY appreciate all the help folks!

Don wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Just for the record... Canadians are prohibited from refilling an existing R12 system with R12. If a top-up or a full charge is needed, the system MUST be converted to R134a, even if there are no leaks. R12 is flat-out prohibited in Canada. Period.

If a Canadian went across the border and brought his car to a US shop to have it charged up with R12, will the shop ask or care where the car came from? Obviously the license plates will be Canadian, but would this matter?

I know you already replied that you will pass on this product, but here's some more food for thinkin'...

How do you suppose that Extreme Cold knows the difference between aluminum heat exchanger fins and aluminum compressor pistons? Magic indeed.

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Unlikely that the technician would notice or would care. None of the shops in this little town carry R12 anymore. I know you can get it, but it takes time.

They are using things like Freeze 12 in these older cars, just to cool them off and put them in "limp to the junkyard" mode.

Anyone can get it for $3 per pound, but not a pound or two at a time. At least not any place I've found.

Freeze 12 is something like 90% 134a and the rest is another refrigerant (I don't remember what) that supposedly will carry the mineral oil in a previously R-12 system. The idea is that you don't have to change the oil. Of course, when the other refrigerant leaks out you're SOL. I have several cans of it that's I'll make you a deal on if you're in the Phoenix area...I bought it but then decided to stick with good old R-12.

In the non restricted states (everywhere but Wisconsin) $8 a can is the going rate for R-134, same price as Freeze 12 without the 'oh shit' disappointment when you can't find someone who can recover it. IOWs, why should I spend $300+ for another recover bottle just to service some renegade refrigerant that the compressor manufacturers don't want used to begin with?

Because:

A) You don't concern yourself with safe and proper procedures B) You're a nice guy C) You are in business to lose money

Those are the only possibilities I could think of. None of them are true, but I love answering a good rhetorical question.

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