Re: Car tail lights that aren't true red

Yep, there's an allowable range, and your neighbor's Saab doesn't meet it because the amber coating has burned off his rear turn signal bulbs. Very common ever since the European Union banned the use of Cadmium glass in bulb manufacture. Some amber coatings can take the heat, others can't. Best of the bunch is Osram's Diadem (the one that looks blue-green-chrome when off and flashes amber when on).

DS

Actually, I have to differ with you on this. The Saab he's mentioning is NEW. I also see new Porsche and Subaru cars running around with these white/amber colored turn signals front/rear. I figure they have to meet SAE specs to be able to sell their cars. But extensive studies were done in the past showing AMBER and RED as best colors for warning recognition (i.e. "I'm turning THIS way!"). Actually AMBER is slightly better than RED, but can be too distracting with high powered bulbs. Brake lights are the most important, and that's why you tend to see most turn signals now mounted below them.

And naturally, all the RICE modders out there follow suit changing their amber bulbs to pure white or bluish-white.

He stated an opinion, so how did he make that up?

He stated an opinion based on false premise.

I'll reinforce that, I have a Seat Toledo (EU car) and yes, the amber coating does wear off fast.... For these replacements you buy better quality.

Not always, no.

JP

When I moved from (anal) New York state to Maryland, I thought MD drivers were ignorant or rude, because I rarely saw any turn signals being used, while I had been trained to always use them in every conceivable situation - even on the country roads where I'd only seen one police car in twenty years and when one could drive for miles and miles without seeing another vehicle. It wasn't until I saw the driver's written test manual for MD did I discover that it was not the law to even use turn signals here. In practice I treat them as a curiosity, but rely not a whit upon them as likely as not the driver doesn't know if they are blinking or not. I am not an authority, but I risk my life on these roads, so I opine that turn is indeed less important than brake. Don't trust them to function neither, but when they come on in front of me, I slow down as quickly as the aggressive tailgater behind me will allow. I've even been know to turn my night driving lights on when a tailgater is so close as to not be able to see his front license plate (they sometimes think I've hit my brakes), then floor my gas to get some safety space from these murderous a-holes. Then look for a lane change to let them blast on by ASAsafelyP.

Uh-oh. I see this is cross-posted to rec.autos.driving. I will delete this newsgroup from my reply as I know some drivers consider their right to be on the road more important than the lives of all creatures in heaven and on earth.

He said that brake lights are the most important. He then said that is why you tend to see most turn signals mounted below them.

You then claimed he said an automotive regulation required it.

You are the one with the false premise.

He may be incorrect on what is most important, he might be wrong that most turn signals are lower. Neither possible error proves he made anything up.

I do.

Cars without turn signals:

Every time they go to turn, they hit their brakes, and I see them stopping. Maybe they get out of the way before I stop completely, in which case I can then continue. If not, I have to stop.

No different than if they had turn signals.

Cars without brake lights:

Car begins to stop, but I don't notice it until the difference in speed between our cars is above a critical point, and then it may be too late.

One is clearly more important than the other.

However, the law in Illinois allows one to have a broken brake light, but not a broken tail light nor a broken turn signal (assuming you do not use hand signals). This is because a single brake light being out still means one is working. You can interpret this how you want.

In the NT where cars have a yearly trip over the 'pits' they will knock back faded brake/tail/turn lights. Simple to fix with a respray of lamp dye...done hundreds....especially when it's a hard one to replace/find...looks like Brand New when done properly...I used to do them for about $10/15

-- Robert B* II

You are an f'ing idiot. I said no such thing, as is made clear by a simple review of the thread chain.

You are severely confused, and obviously incapable of logical argument.

Brake lights appeared before turn signal lights on automobiles. I will point to the pre-1954 VW Beetle, which was equipped with brake lights, but not turn signal lights. (it used mechanical semaphones) Perfectly legal at the time, an indication that contemporary regulations recognized that brake lights were more important.

Anyone with an IQ above yours recoginizes that signalling an immediate action, such as braking, to nearby drivers is more important than signalling an impending action, such as an intention to turn.

In other words, you're making an ASSumption, not quoting an authoritative source or study.

I agree that you're PROBABLY right about the relative importance of the different lights, but if you're going to demand that someone put forth an "authoritative source" then you'd bloody well better be prepared to to the same. You didn't, you lose, you look like the fool.

Dan ONLY said that there "is no requirement" for placement of brake lights relative to turn signals, and there IS an authoritative source for that. Case closed.

Not probably, definitely.

When you use the word "you", are you looking in a mirror?

Then cite the damned "authoritative source" already.

Nope. You're simply unfamiliar with logical proofs, and demonstrating extreme ignorance. Facts are ultimately authoritative.

Sometimes one should use their brain instead of requiring someone else to do their thinking for them.

True. You should try it yourself.

And this from the idiot who thinks brake lights are superfluous.

I vote for reverse lights. When I'm driving along the freeway, I like to see if the geezer up ahead of me is backing up to catch the off-ramp that he just missed. ;-)