Volkswagen and the perils of less for less....by Dan Neil

"hls" wrote in news:k4KdnVYT2 snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

You mean like the Veyron?

What do you expect for 15 grand? If US customers can't be bothered to pay a decent amount for a car, they might as all buy Tata's. I don't see any significant difference between this car and what was the normal Accord several years ago. Try buying an new Accord for $15,000 now. I find his subtitle confusing at the least: comparing the worst of the US car companies to a pure luxury brand on par with Bentley is completely nuts.

Clearly a heavily US biased article. He even tries to complain about plastic being used in the car. Something that US cars have the lead in and have for decades.

Perhaps, but the idea of intentionally employing a planned obsolescence, time-bomb, fragile plastic impeller on a water pump that requires excessive disassembly and expense to R & R (see 2000 bug), a procedure that would have been otherwise obviated by a traditionally more rugged material is an absurdity that benefits only the manufacturer, vendor or service trade, but certainly not for the consumer.

again, not limited to VW. What about GM's fabulous warping plastic intake manifolds? VWs problems just more disappointing to me, because VW makes a much more engaging car to drive than GM, and in general one that is likely to last much longer if properly maintained AND all the bugs are worked out early.

My mom still has the GTI 1.8T that I bought new in 2002... I miss that car... (couldn't justify the payments after I got a job with a company car)

nate

This one isn't just VW.... the whole waterpump reliability issue seems to be a big issue for Mercedes and BMW also. BMW has been through a whole bunch of different designs in the past 20 years.... they all fail in different ways but they all fail prematurely. I don't know what the issue is, but it may be a difference in driving conditions.

--scott

I cant remember when I bought a $15000 car, in the first place. And I probably wouldnt buy one today, knowing that it is probably junk. Maybe your 15 grand remark is in pounds sterling...You didnt say exactly.

When we bought a new car a few years ago, we test drove the Passat, and it was certainly not anywhere near that cheap. That is when I started hearing customer complaints about the range of VW products and backup.

I dont want junk. I am willing to pay a bit more to avoid the kind of cars we used to get from GM.

Bently has never been on my list of desirable cars.

"hls" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

Nobody wants to consider Japanese? Even the ones made in North America?

Enough Americans have considered and bought Japanese to create fear in the American automakers, and a strong brand loyalty in buyers. At one time, VW was about the only car imported to America that offered economy and dependability. While they still have interesting cars, it is my position that they really dont know how to sell very effectively into the American market.

As an aside, a friend just got rid of her new Beetle after only 3-4 years of ownership. It had begun to have "dealership addiction" and was neither dependable nor economical to own. I dont know how much she paid for it, but it was clearly too much.

My impression (purely subjective) is that the German cars are better built and will last longer for a true long term owner/user than Japanese. They also simply feel more solid and pleasant to drive. Personal preference I guess. I can tell you that IMHO the old Porsche that I just sold could easily be "resurrected" if someone were so motivated and turned into a daily driver again with a little mechanical work (mostly transaxle rebuild to get rid of a whiny bearing, and a rebuilt torque tube and clutch for peace of mind.) I don't see myself driving a 22 year old Japanese car.

nate

That's the problem VW has in the US market - they are superior cars IMHO but their dealership network is notoriously sucky and try to weasel out of doing necessary warranty work whenever possible, and their mechanics tend to not be very good.

The best way to own a VW is to have it serviced at a good German-centric, preferably VW-centric specialty shop, and only visit the dealer for warranty repairs.

nate

Exactly what I have been told by American owners of VW products, Nate.

I owned two Passats, one in Brasil and the other in Norway. Never any problems, really, and the dealership mechanics in Norway, at least, are highly trained and work under conditions of laboratory cleanliness. The shop is as clean and bright as the main showroom. You pay for it, but you get what you pay for.

Corporate VW sucks up to the dealers, it would seem, and between the two of them, you can be left holding a rather large bag.

Same car, ~50,000 miles, repairs done so far: Transmission (replacement) Water pump Auxiliary water pump Fusible link block Fuel pump Fuel level sender (separate repairs) Alternator Starter All control arm bushings Both sides upper strut bushings R/S drive axle All engine/trans mounts Ignition coils (recalls) Coolant temp sensor (twice) Washer pump Rubber vent tube (sounds trivial, but it's like $100 for the part) Window switch

This is the most troublesome car I've ever owned. It's also the first car I bought an extended warranty for. I am soooo glad I did that.

Nate Nagel wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news3.newsguy.com:

You're not driving a 22 year old German car either.

Nate, I still have my 1985 "Hachiroku" in my back yard. Stopped driving it about 6 years ago. Bought it 1 year old for $13,500 and had to do a head gasket ($400 then...). Not a problem since.

My ex wife traded her 1988 Accord in in 2002, for a BMW, and did nothing but complain about the beemer...

When you buy a Bimmer or a Benz, you expect to get the much vaunted German excellence. I am not sure you always get what you think you paid for.

It was all the repair bills and 3 transmissions that pissed her off. She traded it for a Yaris.

I dunno about a Benz, but at least with a Bimmer there is a distinct, noticeable (in a good way) difference in the driving experience between it and pretty much anything else I've driven, save for other, equally expensive (when new - I tend to get them when they're well broken in) German sports or sporty cars. Only Benz I think I've ever driven belonged to my friend and it was OK, but didn't make me quiver with excitement or anything. They do have a reputation for durability, but who knows if the new ones will live up to that or if they're resting on their laurels.

nate

A few years ago, wifes employer had a beautiful 450SL that she was selling. I asked her how much she wanted, and she said $10,000. It was plush, not very old, not dogged, outwardly very desireable. She wouldnt consider selling to me. She wouldnt sell that thing to a friend. It literally lived at the MB dealership.

I have known several people who had that complaint with MB cars. And then we hear how durable they are??? I think they are over engineered...high maintenance, also like my ex wife.

This new one with the gull wing doors (makes me remember the old 300 SLR) is a beauty, but I dont need any more experience with things that are more expensive than they are worth. Includes ex wives.