Is the Hummer "greener" than the Prius?

instead of believing

15kWh in 100kg is perfect for the job. An energy density that exists today.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore
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We don't use Fahrenheit or pounds of water either btw.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

Yes, it's being released fom solution by the warming oceans.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

Both are true, but they don't contradict my statement.

Reply to
Matthew T. Russotto

You don't need 1500Wh/kg to make a hybrid EV feasible. Jeez. That would give it ~

500 miles range without a recharge or even running the ICE !

About 150Wh/kg will do nicely.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

Not in Europe either. Nor even in Japan.

Reply to
Matthew T. Russotto

Until you realize that the electricity has to get to the electric motor somehow. Generation efficiency, transmission and distribution losses, and conversion losses all take their toll then.

Reply to
Matthew T. Russotto

Not odd at all. Up to 80% of that energy in gasoline is just wasted anyway.

And they don't contain > 150 kWh/kg either.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

Hey, I've not foul mouthed you and I'd be obliged if you stopped that.

This design already contains all of the elements I've been talking about.

I do wish they'd chosen a larger vehicle though and maybe been a bit more serious instead of giving a Mini a crazy 640 bhp.

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Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

You'd need more than that for your "city car" serial-sometimes-hybrid to be practical, at least here in the YooEss. People expect a 4-500 mile range per "gas tank" of whatever sort. I don't see where you are getting your figures from, however - let's do the numbers again. Gasoline has about 700,000 BTU/gallon or 205 kWh/gal. a gallon weighs

8.3 lbs or 3.8 kg. So that's 53 kWh/kg. (wait, I screwed up something somewhere before, because I just ran through it again and that number seems different than I recall. But the point remains the same.)

So to get a 400 mile range out of an average ICE-powered car, you'd need about 100 lbs or less of fuel. That contains as much energy as you'd get from approximately 4,500 lbs. of your batteries.

Or to put it another way, that's what would be needed for the idea of storing electricity on board to be as practical for the end user as simply running an ICE. Of course, in the real world, assuming that this magical energy density comes with the ability to charge and discharge quickly, you'd actually see some additional benefit from regenerative braking, but that would depend very heavily on maximum charge rate.

Or to put it a *third* way, since the Prius seems to be getting about the same gas mileage as some comparable Diesel cars, there's really ZERO advantage to all this extra complexity and monkey motion until we can make a significant decrease in the weight of our batteries, and/or dramatically increase their ability to take a fast charge to take advantage of regenerative braking, or both. Because I dunno about you, but when presented with two machines that are equally efficient, but one is half as complex as the other, I'll take the simple one every time. It's going to take a dramatic increase in gas mileage above and beyond what I can get out of a well-tuned ICE to make me take the plunge.

No, no it won't. Not unless you enjoy driving something like an overgrown golf cart.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

None of the above have to happen on the vehicle itself.

That's the unique strength of electric propulsion.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

You're just arrogant and ignorant, which is a bad combination. I'll take foul mouthed over arrogant and ignorant any day.

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The claimed 200 mile range smells suspiciously like bullshit. I haven't seen anything actually demonstrated that comes anywhere close to the kind of performance they're claiming.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

Or to not be one. The freedom to be idiotic or not does not seem to exist where you come from - either that or most of you have chosen to be idiots.

Reply to
Fred G. Mackey

You're kidding right?

You're comparing a vehicle that gets 21 MPG to one that gets 40-60MPG?

That's double the gas burned. That means double the amount of tailpipe emissions.

Think about it.

Reply to
Hachiroku

Lee Iacocca said that was about when he had worked on a hybrid car design.

Reply to
larry moe 'n curly

But everyday commuting *isn't* 500 miles.

All a hybrid needs is enough battery capacity to run its daily comuting run on the battery. Any more is wated capacity quite frankly. The idea obviously being to recharge off mains electricity at work, home or elsewhere.

The ICE only needs to kick in when a longer range is required and it'll happily cover as many miles as you care to provide fuel for.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

Do they use them for controlling things like the engine control, ABS, and traction control computer or just for controlling the slower, less critical stuff, like the seatbelts and air conditioning? And wouldn't an MS OS contribute a lot of unneeded overhead and wasted ROM space?

Reply to
larry moe 'n curly

My calculations show 400 miles would need 125 kWh.A 125kWh battery *would* weigh

850 kg. But you never need 125kWh of battery storage.

You simply don't do those 400 mi on energy that was stored 'back at the ranch'. Depending on the scenario you top-up daily with mains electricity or generate your own as you drive when the battery starts to run 'dry'.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

Because it's over complicated.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

Look at the QED mini.

0-60 in 4.2 seconds. That's not golf cart performance.

And it's a plug in hybrid.

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Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

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