Green message aids Prius sales

I started reading the article and was about to say, "OK, there's a fair component of 'lookitme being green' in a Prius purchase" but then I realized I had seen "CNW Marketing Research" elsewhere... they published the dubious "research" that says a Hummer has a life-cycle energy cost that's half that of a Prius, principally through a lot of bogus assumptions especially that the Hummer will last 300K miles and the Prius will be thrown away when the warranty runs out. As if.

So, I'm left wondering if their "results" stem from a few "when did you stop beating your wife?" type questions.

"DH" "C. E. White" > Toyota hybrid outsells competitors because it's distinctive, shows that

Could be they talk to see themselves talk, dunno. I bought mine because I wanted the highest MPG in a car that carried enough stuff and people for us, looked OK (wife likes the look), was made by a very reliable company that I have a history with, was 3rd generation of the model, test drove well with plenty of life, and does compliment the solar panels on my roof at home (I care and do what I can including recycling and composting). But that's just me. Tomes

Anybody who thinks that ANY GM car, including Hummers, will last 300K miles should be watched closely for other signs of mental breakdown. I'm sure there are a few out there, but they've been subject to ground-up restoration, and have been paid for several times over.

"C. E. White" ...

And energy-efficient cockroach. At least it would survive nuclear war.

Natalie

In message news:468e53c3@kcnews01, C. E. White sprach forth the following:

How much gas does it save when a drug-addled Al Gore is driving it 100MPH?

In message news:468e4dae$0$4189$ snipped-for-privacy@free.teranews.com, DH sprach forth the following:

No it will be thrown away when a stoned Al Gore drives it into a ditch.

Funny you should bring that up. I decided to see what they had to say,and they have a long (partially incoherent) response that explains why they choose a 100,000 mile life for the Prius. From

:

***Begin Quote***

Why 100,000 Miles for Prius?

It has come to our attention that an Oregonian article about the Dust-to-Dust report was light on facts, slim on details and void of any explanations. This, in turn, turned into a bloggers' frenzy with a key question being the life expectancy of the Prius.

To clarify:

The Prius was amortized over 100,000-plus miles for a number of reasons.

The 100,000 mile life expectancy for Prius is time as well as distance sensitive. The historical data shows early Prius models were driven an average of only 6,700 miles per year (rounded). At that rate, the vehicle would require 15 years to reach 100,000 miles. It was our determination that is highly unlikely the '05 or '06 Prius models would still be in active service let alone serviceable 15 years from today.

The reason for this is twofold: First, the first and second generation Prius hybrid technologies are rapidly being replaced by lighter, more efficient systems for the new and upcoming Prius versions.

Historically, vehicles that become obsolete have a shorter life span (in time) than existing or serviceable technology.

Second, competitive vehicles to Prius are being planned by virtually all automakers using either Prius-like dual-mode or plug-in hybrid technology (e.g. Chevrolet Volt). This competition, looking at the historic context which is all we can do, is likely to drive the value of older technology Prius models lower. We've already seen the early stages of this happening with decreasing used values for all of the original batch of hybrids.

At some point, economic considerations make it far more practical for owners (or dealers who receive them in trade) to "retire" the vehicles because a limited used-vehicle market would exist for it. Again, in Prius's case this is time, not necessarily only mileage, sensitive.

Can the Prius be driven more than 100,000 miles? Of course. The vehicle is superbly engineered. But this assumes the average Prius driver begins using the car more often. If the Prius were driven the American average of 13,000 miles per year, it would hit the 100,000 mile mark in 7.6 years, well within its attractive (financially and technologically) useful life span. In 10 years, again about the maximum for ground-breaking technology, it would have registered 130,000 miles. Mechanically, there is no logical reason for the Prius not to last 130,000 miles or more.

The latest data shows Prius owners are driving more than early Prius owners and the use of the vehicle is becoming a primary means of transportation in a household rather than a novelty. But the average annual mileage, outside of certain southern-tier states, remains barely above 7,000 per year.

Other components on the Prius, such as tires, are less distance-mileage friendly than non-hybrids of the same size and weight. For example, surveys of Prius owners by us and other research companies show barely 16,000 miles average life for original-equipment tires compared to 43,000 for Toyota Corolla. This high-tech tire uses a compound and design that reduces rolling resistance and thus improves fuel economy. But the typical replacement tire for a Prius will not likely be the OEM specialty variety, cutting both fuel economy and distance-per-battery charge of the Prius.

As for Hummer, much of the design, development and manufacturing energy costs are spread across more than just this single model. (One of the original and recent Prius disadvantages, quickly being turned around.)

In addition, the platform, power train and other mechanical components are shared with a variety of other GM products and have a significantly longer post-disposal life in the replacement market. Higher volume of components speeds manufacturing and reduces energy per-unit costs. Add the simplicity of disposing of the Hummer and the entire per-mile cost becomes lower even though the fuel economy is staggeringly worse than Prius.

And as I pointed out in the past, the energy cost per mile is unequivocally going to decline for Prius over time as the technology continues to spread across other models and the disposal/scrap industry learns how to deal with its high-tech materials and components.

***End Quote***

Seems to me that these guys are anti-Prius since they have another documented titled "Hidden Cost of Driving a Prius Commentary" on the same web page. From

***Begin Quote***

"Commentary

Hidden cost of driving a Prius

Totaling all the energy expended, from design to junkyard, a Hummer may be a better bargain.

By James L. Martin

When it comes to protecting the environment, senior citizens should concentrate more on the total energy consumed in building and operating a car than its fuel efficiency - no matter how impressive the statistics appear on the window sticker at the showroom.

A prime example is Toyota's Prius, a compact hybrid that's beloved by ardent environmentalists and that fetches premium prices because it gets nearly 50 miles-per gallon in combined highway/city driving.

Yet, new data have emerged that show the Prius may not be quite as eco-friendly as first assumed - if you pencil in the environmental negatives of producing it in the first place.

Like most hybrids, the Prius relies on two engines - one, a conventional

76-horsepower gasoline power plant, and a second, battery-powered, that kicks in 67 more horses. Most of the gas is consumed as the car goes from 0 to 30, according to alarmed Canadian environmentalists, who say Toyota's touting of the car's green appeal leaves out a few pertinent and disturbing facts. The nickel for the battery, for instance, is mined in Sudbury, Ontario, and smelted at nearby Nickel Centre, just north of the province's massive Georgian Bay.

Toyota buys about 1,000 tons of nickel from the facility each year, ships the nickel to Wales for refining, then to China, where it's manufactured into nickel foam, and then onto Toyota's battery plant in Japan.

That alone creates a globe-trotting trail of carbon emissions that ought to seriously concern everyone involved in the fight against global warming. All told, the start-to finish journey travels more than 10,000 miles - mostly by container ship, but also by diesel locomotive.

But it's not just the clouds of greenhouse gases generated by all that smelting, refining, manufacturing and transporting that worries green activists. The 1,250-foot-tall smokestack that spews huge puffs of sulphur dioxide at the Sudbury mine and smelter operation has left a large swath of the surrounding area looking like a surrealistic scene from the depths of hell. On the perimeter of the area, skeletons of trees and bushes stand like ghostly sentinels guarding a sprawling wasteland. Astronauts in training for NASA actually have practiced driving moon buggies on the suburban Sudbury tract because it's considered a duplicate of the Moon's landscape.

"The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants, and the soil slid down off the hillside," David Martin, Greenpeace's energy coordinator in Canada, told the London Daily Mail.

"The solution they came up with was the Superstack. The idea was to dilute pollution, but all it did was spread the fallout across northern Ontario," Martin told the British newspaper, adding that Sudbury remains "a major environmental and health problem. The environmental cost of producing that car battery is pretty high."

A "Dust to Dust" study by CNW Marketing Research of Bandon, Ore., shows the overall eco-costs of automotive hybrids may be even higher.

Released last December, the study tabulated all data on the energy necessary to plan, build, sell, drive and dispose of a vehicle from drawing board to junkyard, including such items as plant-to-dealer fuel costs, distances driven, electricity usage per pound of material in each vehicle, and hundreds of other variables.

To put the data into understandable terms for consumers, CNW translated it into a "dollars per lifetime mile" figure, or the energy cost per mile driven. When looked at from that perspective, the Prius and other hybrids quickly morphed from fuel-sippers into energy-guzzlers.

The Prius registered an energy-cost average of $3.25 per mile driven over its expected life span of 100,000 miles. Ironically, a Hummer, the brooding giant that has become the bête noir of the green movement, did much better, with an energy-cost average of $1.95 over its expected life span of 300,000 miles. And its crash protection makes it far safer than the tiny Prius.

Such information should be of major concern to senior citizens - especially those on a fixed budget.

If seniors need a small gas-sipping car for city travel, however, the undisputed champion is Toyota's own gasoline-powered subcompact, the Scion xB, whose energy cost averaged a negligible 48 cents for each mile traveled over its lifetime.

Fully armed with all the facts, seniors may want to zip down to their nearest Toyota dealer and trade in their Priuses for Scion xBs. That would be the equivalent of reducing their energy footprint from a size 24D to about a size 5A. In the case of global warming, one small step for man may turn out to be a giant leap for mankind."

***End of Quote***

Seems like poorly thought about babbling to me.

Regards,

Ed White

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Hey, thanks for digging up the articles.