(non-Toyota post) Water heater advice?

I have a question about water heaters. I apologize for posting to the Toyota NG but there is no water softener group. I know a lot of the good folks here are do-it-yourselfers so maybe one of you will know the answer.

As you know, water softeners get mineral deposits that collect in the bottom. A friend told me that over time, the deposits get thick enough to insulate the bottom of the tank. Since the heating element is located beneath the bottom of the tank and the water is on the other side of the deposit buildup, the heating element has to stay on a good deal longer in order to raise the water temp a given amount. Not only does this waste electricity, it shortened the lifespan of the heating element and the tank a good deal.

He said if you drain your water heater once a year, the deposits will drain out as well and eliminate the problem. However, I heard this after my water heater was already about six years old, and when I tried draining it, the water came out glug-glug instead of whoosh, which my friend believes means the deposits are partially blocking the drain hole so they're too big to come out.

Does this make sense?

I have considered draining it and pouring a few bottles of lime away in there, letting it sit for a few hours then filling it and re-draining it several times to rinse out all the lime away. However, I'm not sure the lime-away wouldn't hurt my tank. I don't know what metal the tank is made from, though I have heard of them rusting so I'd guess galvanized steel or maybe stainless.

Any thoughts on this?

Reply to
That Guy
Loading thread data ...

  1. The minerals the water softer uses to soften the water is salt. That actually leaves a little in the water and that's not supposed to be good for you.
  2. My sister has a new A O Smith fiberglass lined water heater and she purges hers once a month. And it's just a water heater. But Kankakee does have 'hard' water.

Charles of Schaumburg

Reply to
n5hsr

I would not feel comfortable using chemicals in a potable water supply because there is no way to guarantee that you get it all out of the tank.

You mention water softeners, but from the context, I assume you mean water heaters. A water softener is supposed to remove mineral deposits; a water heater heats the water.

If you have an electric water heater, the heating element is not underneath the tank. The heating elements are actually above the bottom of the tank so that it does not sit in the sediment that builds up.

There is a sacrificial anode in the tank that corrodes so that the tank itself does not corrode.

If you have a gas water heater, the flue pipe runs up the center of the tank so that heat is transferred to the water through the center as well as from the bottom.

Here is an explanation of how water heaters work:

formatting link
When you opened the drain your tank, did the water come out relatively clear? If you shut off the cold water supply and open the drain, the water will drain very slowly unless there is a way to let air into the top of the tank. I doubt if enough sediment built up on the bottom of the tank to clog the drain valve, unless your water supply is really dirty.

If you want to empty the tank, shut off the heater so that you are not heating an empty tank, shut off the cold water supply, and open the drain. Then open a hot water faucet in the house to allow air into the top of the tank, and it should drain much more quickly.

Reply to
Ray O

Glug-glug is because air has to enter the tank as water is released. Open the pressure release valve to add air to the tank as you empty the water.

Reply to
Pat

You would be better served asking this question in alt.home.repair

Reply to
badgolferman

If you are talking about a water heater and not a water softener, you need to flush the tank yearly under pressure, not drain it. It is the agitation of the water flow that will flush the tank bottom. Hook up a hose to the boiler drain at the bottom of your tank and route it to a drain. Open the valve and let it flush out under pressure for about one minute. If you suspect heavy deposits, there are some commercial products made that you can introduce into the tank to remove lime scale, but an easy product to find at most stores comes to mind called "Iron Out". It will remove lime scale and rust. If you have an electric heater, lime scale will form on the heat elements as well, (usually two, upper and lower) and the heating will not be as efficient as when they are clean. They can be removed for cleaning or replacement if you must, but that would not be normal. Try just flushing it first, then if you need to, shut off the electrical and water supply to the tank, uncouple at the di-electric fitting (cold supply, usually a blue plastic ring on it), drain the water level down just a bit, and introduce the cleaner. Let it work for about ten minutes or as directed, then couple up the supply pipe that you disconnected, and flush under pressure. You may need a few applications for a tank with heavy deposits. MAKE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that you flush the tank VERY WELL after any chemical treatment. Good luck.

Reply to
user

Are we talking softeners or heaters? ;-) Softeners put sodium ions in the water that can precipitate out in the water heater, and add a bit to the mineral buildup...

Close... On electric water heaters there are two calrod elements sticking into the tank from the side near the top and bottom, and they get coated, overheat, and fail early. On a gas water heater, the burner is under the tank, but the sides of the flue going up the middle also contribute to the heating.

The drain valve hole has crud in it - and/or they used a crap valve with too small a hole. Turn off the heater and allow it to cool, turn off the water and relieve the pressure, and then take the drain valve all the way off. The loose crud will come out.

Go buy a new Boiler Drain rated faucet, they have a seat that will handle the heat. Or better, a regular 1/2" ball valve, a brass nipple into the tank fitting (to avoid dissimilar metals corrosion), and a garden hose adapter. They have "Quarter Master" ball valve faucets that will work on hot water, but the orifice isn't full-flow sized.

They put clean-out handholes on commercial water heaters so you can reach in and scoop out the muck - but nobody ever does...

It's regular steel, rolled and welded plate, stamped plate end caps

- pressure vessel. They line it with baked on porcelain ("glass lined") so it won't rust out as fast. No banging on the tank, if the lining cracks that's where the rust starts. And Lime-Away is an acid wash, shouldn't hurt anything.

If your water goes cold fast, check the dip tube - the Cold inlet has a plastic or metal pipe inside to carry the cold water down to the bottom of the tank, so the rising hot water goes to the outlet. If the dip tube rusts off or breaks, the cold mixes at the top and the hot striates and gets stuck at the bottom.

The other thing to check, if you actually want to bother, is the sacrificial magnesium anode - looks like a pipe plug on the side or top of the tank, marked "Anode". It's supposed to keep the cracks from rusting by eroding first, and it works fine till it is used up. If you find it chewed away, good luck finding a replacement - Plumbing Wholesale House or Google for a supplier to ship you one.

When the water heater finally dies, consider an "Instant" tankless heater if you have gas - but get a good one rated for two major appliances at once, especially if there are two or more people in the house. The 199KBTU or better input. They cost a LOT up front, but they save a lot of energy over their life, and will pay for themselves.

Electric tankless heaters will only work if you have an oversized service panel - Yeah, Right, Suuure... They use electric tankless heaters as dishwasher boosters for restaurants - they draw 100A to

150A 240V 3-Phase. That's why the building has a 1200-Amp service panel.

And if you are in an All Electric house, seriously consider changing over to Propane for heating if you can't get natural gas (or even oil)

- there are way too many losses in electricity generation and transmission, and you're paying for them. Generate the heat directly where it's needed, and you WILL save money.

-->--

Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman

Awesome, thanks!!

You guessed right, it's just a heater... I typed "softener" by mistake.

Reply to
That Guy

Excellent suggestion, thanks.

Reply to
That Guy

Makes sense. Thank you.

Reply to
That Guy

Thanks!!

Reply to
That Guy

Fantastic, thanks!!

Reply to
That Guy

You're welcome!

Reply to
Ray O

How often would this need to be done, given a household of two adults and that the water is softened before it goes into the water heater?

Reply to
That Guy

NG but there is no water softener group. I know a

the answer.

A friend told me that over time, the deposits get

located beneath the bottom of the tank and the

stay on a good deal longer in order to raise the

the lifespan of the heating element and the tank a

Flushing a water heater a couple times a year is usually a good idea.

That is if you dont end up causing more problems from desturbing that 6 year old peice of junk plastic hose bib or end up with a seeping presure relieve valve or something.

out as well and eliminate the problem. However, I

tried draining it, the water came out glug-glug

blocking the drain hole so they're too big to come

letting it sit for a few hours then filling it and

sure the lime-away wouldn't hurt my tank. I don't

I'd guess galvanized steel or maybe stainless.

I would suggest just leaving the water heater alone because its probably getting a little old and you may do more harm then good at this point. (unless it's gurgling real loud and bugging you.)

When it comes time to replace it then you can set up the new one with a good valve and whatever it needs to make it easy to flush. Remember you open that valve and you get HOT water blasting out of there at the same pressure as the garden hose.

Dan

Reply to
Danny G.

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.