Toyota engine oil sludge affects more than the few models and model years covered in Toyota's "Customer Support Program for Engine Oil Gelation." Toyota indicates that 1997-2002 Sienna, Camry, Avalon, Solara, Highlander, Celica, Lexus RX300, and Lexus ES300 are the ones that are sludge-prone. At the same time, it says that these vehicle owners are to blame for the sludge condition. Toyota doesn't include the earlier models or the later models, though. It also doesn't include the Corolla, RAV4, and 4Runner despite the fact that some of these owners are reporting sludge buildup and engine demise.
The class action lawsuit covers all the models and model years included in the CSP, contrary to the poster's information above. I suppose that Toyota will use any loopholes it can to limit the relief for its valued customers.
Many Toyota owners are reporting that Toyota has required far more engine oil change receipts than what it publicly has stated it would. According to owner accounts, owners continue to be treated poorly in Toyota's alleged effort to limit the number of vehicle owners who qualify under the CSP. In many cases engines are being cleaned when they need to be replaced.
Unfortunately, the class action lawsuit doesn't help those with models not covered under the CSP. It doesn't help those who long ago traded their vehicles when sludge clogged their engines. It doesn't help those Toyota owners whose engines mysteriously threw rods through the engine block. It doesn't do anything for the Toyota owners whose engines spontaneously erupted in fire on the road for no apparent reason. No, there are many Toyota owners left out.
Is Toyota really "listening" to online discussions/reports by its vehicle owners? If so, why isn't the petition being addressed? Why aren't these owners getting a fair resolution in their sludge or engine failure cases? We know that Toyota is tracking the owner postings.
Interestingly enough, someone has been trying desperately to sabotage the Toyota owner petition. Who would care to go to this length to prevent Toyota owner organization? Who would want to end this petition? Hmmmm....
Charlene Blake snipped-for-privacy@erols.com Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution
The sludge warranty was offered by Toyota but not a legally binding settlement. Yes there were reports that Toyota wasn't honoring its own warranty offer.
However, a Jan 18 2007 article in the Free Press stated that Toyota is going to settle a class action led grew out of the Jeff Meckstroth case in Feb 2007 precisely because of that. And owners who kept up their maintenance and suffered sludged up engines should have better luck.
So is the petition being addressed by the Meckstroth class action?
======================================== Toyota settles oil sludge cases Owners complain that a buildup damaged engines January 18, 2007
[snip]
"The class action settlement should make it easier for customers to receive resolve their problems, said Gary Gambel, a New Orleans lawyer heading the case for plaintiffs.
Under the settlement, customers can bring issues directly to Toyota. If they're not satisfied with Toyota's response, the customer can turn to a court-appointed third-party evaluator, who will decide what damages should be paid.
Customers do not need a lawyer or technical expert to take up their case, Gambel said. Even if the time has expired for a lawsuit to be filed, they can seek relief as long as the damages occurred within eight years of the original purchase date." ========================================
Toyota settles oil sludge cases Owners complain that a buildup damaged engines
January 18, 2007
BY JOE GUY COLLIER
FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER
Jeff Meckstroth, a New Orleans stockbroker, bought a Lexus RX300 in late 1998 because of the luxury brand's reputation for quality.
Two years later, Meckstroth's opinion of Lexus, and its owner Toyota Motor Corp., changed when the engine in his car came to a clunking halt and the automaker blamed him for the problem.
"What was really disconcerting is that when we went into the Lexus dealership they said it wasn't covered under warranty due to lack of owner maintenance," Meckstroth said.
Meckstroth's long-running legal battle with Toyota, which grew into a class action over oil sludge damage, is expected to come to an end in early February.
Toyota Motor Sales USA, the U.S. sales arm of Japan-based Toyota, and lawyers representing car owners have reached an agreement that would cover engine repairs and incidental damages caused by oil sludge for up to eight years after the purchase of certain vehicles.
The vehicles include several Lexus and Toyota models, including the Camry, sold in the late 1990s and early 2000s. The Camry became the best-selling car in the United States in 1997, based largely on its quality pedigree. It has held the top spot every year since, except for
2001 when it was second to the Honda Accord.
The case arose from customer complaints that oil sludge was building up in the engine and causing damage that required part or all of the engine to be replaced.
The number of customer problems is not known, but the pool of covered vehicles is estimated to be between 3 million and 4 million, based on sales figures. Notices have been sent to about 7.5 million original and secondary owners of the vehicles, according to plaintiffs' lawyers.
The oil sludge issue is not new for Toyota. The last model year included in the settlement is 2002. But the case is coming to a close at a time when Toyota sales are increasing at double-digit rates in the United States. Many analysts are predicting Toyota will pass General Motors Corp. this year as the world's largest maker of cars and trucks.
Maintaining its reputation for quality is a top concern, said Toyota spokesman Xavier Dominicis. Toyota already has been working with customers to remedy the issue, he said.
A customer support program, which closely mirrors the settlement, was put in place in 2002 to deal with oil sludge problems. Proper maintenance, such as regular oil changes, should prevent oil sludge buildup, but Toyota wants to address any problems brought to it by customers, Dominicis said.
"Our biggest concern is customer satisfaction," he said. "That's why we're so gratified that this settlement validates the program we put in place four years ago." Meckstroth, who started the case, said he changed the oil in his Lexus based on company guidelines.
Toyota, without admitting a defect to the engines, acknowledges that some owners who changed their oil regularly experienced sludge problems.
The class action settlement should make it easier for customers to receive resolve their problems, said Gary Gambel, a New Orleans lawyer heading the case for plaintiffs.
Under the settlement, customers can bring issues directly to Toyota. If they're not satisfied with Toyota's response, the customer can turn to a court-appointed third-party evaluator, who will decide what damages should be paid.
Customers do not need a lawyer or technical expert to take up their case, Gambel said. Even if the time has expired for a lawsuit to be filed, they can seek relief as long as the damages occurred within eight years of the original purchase date.
"This settlement opens the door and breathes life back into those closed claims that might otherwise be time-barred," Gambel said. "It also breathes life into claims that would not be economically feasible for a person to advance."
As for Meckstroth, the settlement likely will not mean a huge windfall. He's already been awarded a new engine by an arbitrator assigned to handle auto warranty disputes.
The settlement calls for covering his legal fees. He also could receive money for incidental damages, such as the diminished value of the Lexus and any rental car fees.
But Meckstroth said the case was not about money. He was so irritated by Toyota's refusal to handle the problem on its own that he pursued the class action. "I wanted to expose this because I think what they did was wrong," he said.
Meckstroth replaced his Lexus with an Acura MDX. Would he ever buy a Lexus again? Not unless he gets a formal apology, he said.
Okay, then. I bought my 99 Camry 6 cyl. in May, 99. I used regular oil until
24,000 kilometres then switched to synthetic. I have receipts from dealer showing that the oil was changed every 6,000 KILOmetres. I don't *think* that I have any, uh, gelation, problems. How does one know, for sure, if their is any sludging..without taking the engine apart?
Some people seem to think that everyone else should do the thinking for them. Every car is sludge prone. Maybe they should be suing the oil companys, maybe the product they seel isn't up to specfication.
Better yet they should pull thier head out of their butt and think for themselves for once. The "Support Program for Engine Oil Gelation" doesn't even exist in Oz as far as i'm aware. WTF is the world coming to.
Well, this is a stretch but since the lawyer is from New Orleans, perhaps he could sue Toyota for letting all the buses get flooded also. Did his client do maintenance?
I really have a problem with this sludge crap being widespread if maintenance was done reasonably. Once every two or three years is enough, at least per Charlene?
I've talked to a number of people at Toyota. Not ONE said they ever saw a sludged engine that had had the oil changed per the manufacturers recommendation.
Of course they won't say that on the record, but if you talk to the techs you get a hundred percent agreement that this is a customer problem.
The engines noted will sludge before others in the Toyota line, but none of them will sludge if you change the oil every 5000 miles.
"The Toyota agreement the court is examining contains no finding of fault by Toyota or its dealers and does not prove Toyota or Lexus vehicles are predisposed to develop oil gel."
Too bad the world doesn't work the way it should. The settlement should've required that anyone who did not change their oil, and received settlement money should have their photographs included on full page ads bought by Toyota: "Do You Know These People? They Sue Others Because Of Mistakes They Made". Names & full addresses included.
[snip yadda yadda yadda]
[snip yeah, right, whatever]
There was, if I understand correctly, a service bulletin describing a service process for inspecing the oil channels in the valve covers. If you ask your dealer about it - maybe ask to have it done at the next major service - I expect they can help you.
You might search back old messages in TOYOTAS_ONLY in Yahoo! Groups for info on this.
When this started making noise a few years ago, I had an 02 Highlander (still have at 65K) and an 02 Avalon (replaced per SO's desire for 05 Avalon) All service 3000/3mo at dealer. I asked service writer about it (sludge) and he said, to the best of my memory, they'd had one in for "gelling" and I think it was a 98 with some 60k on it then - I think there was record of oil change at dealer about 10k and one loose receipt at some
37k. Nada - but Toyota fixed it anyhow.
We've had 4 with this engine (one is the 3.5) and damn I can't seem to find a reason to get a new engine. Ron
MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.