Tundra owners grumble over rumble

Tundra owners grumble over rumble

Mark Rechtin Automotive News October 22, 2007 - 12:01 am ET

LOS ANGELES - Toyota's Tundra pickup was hit with a double whammy last week.

Angry consumers are peppering the Internet with complaints that the torque converter in the 2007 Tundra's six-speed transmission has problems disengaging during gearshifts - a problem that Toyota acknowledges.

Meanwhile, the Tundra 4x4 model took a broadside from Consumer Reports magazine, which rated it "below average" in projected reliability.

Toyota thought it had put the redesigned Tundra's teething problems in the rearview mirror. First there was a batch of defective camshafts. Then it received a four-star rating in NHTSA crash tests, one star less than its Detroit rivals.

The latest quality snarl involves a vibration coming from the transmission when changing gears under gentle acceleration or deceleration.

Toyota Motor Sales officials have nicknamed the problem "the rumble strip" because the slippage causes vibration similar to the sensation of driving over the wake-up strips at the side of highways.

The rumbling usually lasts several seconds. But the problem sometimes worsens to the point that some owners can't shift into certain gears.

The problem has been reported only in six-speed transmissions, which are linked to the popular 5.7-liter V-8 engine. Since the 2007 Tundra's February launch, the 5.7-liter engine has been installed in 70 percent of about

135,000 Tundras sold. That means the problem could affect nearly 100,000 vehicles.

Tundra travails Since its February launch, Toyota's full-sized pickup has taken some hits related to quality.

Bad batch of camshafts

Crash rating below rivals'

Consumer Reports snub

Faulty torque converters

Bad torque converter Before Toyota's technical service department traced the problem to the torque converter, some Toyota dealers replaced entire transmissions, said Toyota spokesman John Hanson. If the vibration occurs now, likely only the torque converter will be replaced.

Toyota still is trying to trace what exactly is wrong with the torque converter.

Internal field reports have yet to show anyone stranded by the problem, Hanson said. But Tundra owners in several Internet chat rooms say their transmissions quit shifting properly, forcing them to limp the truck to a dealership. The rumble-strip effect often occurs within the first 1,000 miles of ownership.

Isolated instances Pickup owners are especially particular about vehicle reliability, says Mike Levine, editor of the consumer Internet site pickuptruck.com.

Since Toyota staked its reputation on reliability, any problem makes it tougher for Toyota to persuade domestic loyalists to switch allegiances, Levine said.

Reports of the problem have been sporadic. Large dealers in northern California, Texas and Ohio said they had no reported owner complaints about Tundra transmissions. An executive for a group of Midwestern dealerships, speaking anonymously, said his mechanics had seen one or two instances.

Craig Whetter, executive vice president of Wilson Automotive Group, says the group's six Toyota stores in California and Arizona have sold 2,236 Tundras this year but have not seen a single bad torque converter.

"These guys haven't turned a bolt on one, let alone replaced one," Whetter said.

Of bigger concern to Toyota is the number of vehicles affected.

The faulty camshaft problem was limited to several hundred early-build vehicles, but owners of Tundras built as recently as September have complained of defective transmissions.

The torque converter for the six-speed transmission used with the 5.7-liter V-8 is built at an Aisin AW plant in Durham, N.C. Aisin officials declined to comment, referring interview requests to Toyota.

Reply to
C. E. White
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I'm not completeley surprised by all this quality slipping news coming out lately. Although I am still a Toyota loyalist I have personally noticed the quality of the controls, road noise, inside material and other non-essential parts. All Toyotas I have owned since my 1994 Camry just don't measure up in feel or driving experience.

All that said I would still choose a Toyota over almost any brand just because everything under the skin and cabin lasts for such a long time without needing repair.

Reply to
badgolferman

I don't think this problem is really that big a deal. Toyota has had problems like ever other manufacturer for years. However, in many cases they get the bugs out in other markets before selling the product in the US. The new Tundra has quite a few US unique componets (5.7L engine, 6 speed truck transmission). Because of this, the US market is doing the debugging. I only know one person who has a "new" Tundra and he seems happy - but then the biggest thing he likely to haul is groceries. I am seeing a lot more big Tundras around. It seems to be a moderate hit with the "I don't really need a truck, but want one crowd." The hard bed cover and chrome brush guards are clear indicators that it is a hit with the poser crowd. I have yet to see one outside of a Toyota commerical hauling anything at all (even a boat).

Anyhow, both Ford and Dodge had problems with shuttering torque convertors in the recent past. The camshaft problems seems to have been an early teething problem that has been resolved.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

Interesting that article states "the new Tundra owners have been peppering the internet with complaints".

Am I missing something, or is there not one single "new" Tundra complaint on this NG?

The older Tundra, like what I have (2002) had brake issues, tranny issues, various other things that showed up here.

GC

Reply to
Chips

----- Original Message ----- From: "Chips" Newsgroups: alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.toyota.trucks Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 2:00 PM Subject: Re: Tundra owners grumble over rumble

I actually thought the same thing. There were a couple of other things that bothered me - 1) I don't think a torque converter can disengage during a shift - maybe they meant the torque converter clutch; 2) I doubt that the actual torque convertors are made in Durham (the transmissions are made there), 3) I don't think must truck owner are especially particular about reliability.

In defense of the article, I will say that usenet is no longer the primary tool people use to discuss problems. Most people I know prefer other types of forums. Here are a few other forums where problems are discussed:

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I think you can find enough mention of problems to qualify as "peppering the internet with complaints."

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

That's understandable domestic trucks are very reliable trucks. When Toyota said 'this changes everything' they were referring to the Tundra finally getting closer to domestic trucks in build quality.

The Tundra is a far better truck than anything Toyota sold before but it seems they still have a way to go to come close to Ford, GM and Dodge full-size trucks in build quality

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Even Toyotas race cars are pulled to the track by domestic trucks, mot Fords

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Toyota needs to sell a hell of a lot more Tundras for the problematic ones to start to show up as complaint in a NG. The only sell around 5% of the trucks sold in the US ;)

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Really? Then why is it Toyota had more recalls than any other manufacturer in 2006 and again so far in 2007?

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

: The Tundra is a far better truck than anything Toyota sold before but it : seems they still have a way to go to come close to Ford, GM and Dodge : full-size trucks in build quality

You HAVE to be kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Any reliable mechanic will tell you that G(enerally) M(ediocre), Fraud & Drudge are the WORST brands for reliability. Plus look at their resale value. You can see it falling as they are driven off the lot!

Reply to
Fuller Rath

kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't get too wrapped up in this debate. My Kunter believes he was once in the car business. It's a harmless, but annoying symptom. His doctors can't do much about it except to keep him sedated much of the day.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Yeah, that could be. The web forums have better controls for the spamming that goes on in the usenets.

Thanks for those links.

GC

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Reply to
Chips

Mike, we covered this before. While it is true Toyota recalled the most vehicles in 2006, it is not even close in 2007. GM, Ford, and Nissan have all recalled more vehicles so far in 2007 than Toyota. I gave you the facts and good references.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can you point me to reasonably well collected statistics that back up this claim? Between myself and my Father we have owned 12 Ford Trucks in the last

51 years ('56 F100, '62 F100, '67 F100, '72 F100, '75 F100, '78 Courier, '83 Ranger, '86 Ranger, '89 Rager, '92 F150, '92 Ranger, '99 Ranger). The list of repairs is pretty short:

'56 F100 - replaced bed floor (hauling hogs is tough on bed floors) '62 F100 - replaced one brake line (I popped it somehow) '67 F100 - clutch '72 F100 - nothing '75 F100 - nothing (but it drank gas like it was water) '78 Courier - vacuum modulator '83 Ranger - nothing '86 Ranger - ignition module '89 Ranger - nothing '92 Ranger - water pump '92 F150 - fuel pump, a/c recharge, alternator, HVAC blower fan (I managed to get a plastic grocery bag wrapped around the fan shaft) '99 Ranger - nothing

These trucks weren't ride around town empty trucks. They were used on a farm on a daily basis, hauling real loads in fields, etc. I don't know many farmers with Toyota trucks. The only one I know persoanlly owned two of the smaller Tacoma type trucks. One was a diesel - it required the transmission to be rebuilt twice and the engine once. The other was a gas truck, he had to replace the engine in that. Both suffered greatly from rust. For actually hauling stuff, he now has a Silverado. He has a Colorado for a ride around truck. He also has the old Toyota gas truck for his wife to use.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL!!

Reply to
Roy

kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I suppose we should wrap up this discussion. I'll do it: Another goofy OT post from one of our lefty kook friends ROTFLOL

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

answer the damn question diaper boy.

Reply to
dbu.

kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My brother in law is a Farmer in S.Dakota. He only owns Ford trucks, as do most all Midwest farmers. He puts 300K on these things, and beats them to hell every day. In one day that I spent with him, we drove that truck through fields and ditches, pulled a silo across a field, dragged feed troughs and feeders from one field to another, then hooked up this big ass cattle trailer and hauled a bunch of cows to the sale barn. This was just one day with his Ford truck with 285K on it.

Reply to
ToMh

There is no question here. Now, take the needle out of your arm.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

That may be your personal opinion, but the facts prove otherwise.

How often have we heard in this NG somebody saying I will not buy another brand "X" or "Y" because of the ONE they owned that was problematic?

The Camry is the number one selling midsize car for a reason, buyers believe it is the best car for their hard earned money.

The F150 is the best selling truck, as well as the best selling vehicle in the US, for the same reason. The F Series truck sells at a rate nearly twice that of the Camry.

Buyers do not continue to buy any vehicle if one they buy is problematic. Truck buys have been buying the Ford F150 over and over and over again for thirty years. The second best selling truck has been the Silverado. Combined, in a few weeks, those two trucks sell at TWICE the annual selling rate of the Tundra.

THAT should tell you what trucks, actual truck buyer think are the best trucks for their money and the truck they continually prefer to buy. Whether you happen to agree of not is immaterial ;)

mike

kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply to
Mike Hunter

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