Wondering what's next wrt CNG in Toyota

NotMe · 2012-02-09T18:19:35+00:00

We're interested in new vehicles and so far can't get a straight answer fromany of the car/truck companies.We've a large extended family (foster to adopt-- 49 grand kids last count)and need new vans for people transport. Also need trucks to pull trailersfor business.I'm trying to find out what's on the horizon for duel fuel, CNG/gas andCNG/diesel. So far all I get are very vague sales oriented promo info. and phone calls 'to come on down!'Anyone have any ideas on what might be up in this regard?TIA

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NotMe 14 years ago

It's quite common, but way under publicized, in the commercial side for dedicated CNG, not so much for duel fuel. The limit there is the availability of commercial fueling stations.

The big problem with private adoption is the mix of federal, state and local regulations with (drum roll) profit center fees and certifications.

I can install a CNG/NG conversion for back up power generation for less that $100 for permits. When I go for a CNG home fueling station the permit and fees can go through the roof. (working on that issue both locally and at the state level).

If I want to convert a liquid fuel station to sell CNG again the permits, inspection and fees are out of sight. In fact in some cases it's cheaper to get a permit for a high pressure NG pipe line than it is to get a CNG fuel station approved. BTDT.

I may be tilting at wind mills as I'd prefer to do this according to the permitting system but if necessary I can play the existing rules to my advantage. As example I own land that is technically farm land and in these parts are not so encumbered in what can be done, often without a permit.

One thing I have found is that after market conversations must be disconnected every year for a emissions inspection. Do-able but a big PI*.

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Michael 14 years ago

We drive quite a bit - around 100 gallons per month, easily. I've seen used CNG vehicles for around $4,000 on autotrader.com (just type in "natural gas" in the Keywords box), so retrofit costs aren't really an issue. Assuming

A =3D X gallons * ($3.50/gallon gasoline) B =3D X gallons * ($2.50/gallon equivalent of Natural Gas at a public fill station)

and let A - B =3D $4,000, X gallons =3D 4,000 gallons and at 100 gallons per month, breakeven time (for the whole vehicle) =3D about 3 years.

I expect, however, if I get a home compressor, I will exceed the baseline usage for natural gas, especially in the wintertime. Will have to do the calcs to figure out how many therms are in a 10-gallon,

3,000-psi tank full of natural gas... =3D)

Michael

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Jeff Strickland 14 years ago

We drive quite a bit - around 100 gallons per month, easily. I've seen used CNG vehicles for around $4,000 on autotrader.com (just type in "natural gas" in the Keywords box), so retrofit costs aren't really an issue. Assuming

A = X gallons * ($3.50/gallon gasoline) B = X gallons * ($2.50/gallon equivalent of Natural Gas at a public fill station)

and let A - B = $4,000, X gallons = 4,000 gallons and at 100 gallons per month, breakeven time (for the whole vehicle) = about 3 years.

I expect, however, if I get a home compressor, I will exceed the baseline usage for natural gas, especially in the wintertime. Will have to do the calcs to figure out how many therms are in a 10-gallon,

3,000-psi tank full of natural gas... =)

Michael

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Sounds to me like you need to be calling the natural gas provider to see if you can get a commercial account so you get around the baseline limitations of residential customers.

Indeed, it really sounds like you should be buying a case of scotch for your congressman to get him to get legislation that makes your idea economically feasable. Having said that, no matter what the building permit fees might be, you simply add them to your fleet operating costs, and then see how the ammortization schedule works out vis a vis the ROI.

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Michael 14 years ago

...

Oh, duh, I was over-analyzing this. From Wikipedia, one gallon-of- gasoline-equivalent (GGE) of natural gas is 127 cubic feet, @ 900 btu per cubic foot. Therefore one GGE is about 1.1 therm. Here (northern California) one therm costs about $1, depending on the time of year. Doable, I guess.

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