New Camry Driver's Seat Uncomfortable

Because I've been told that my '97 Camry LE 4 with 88,000 miles needs new engine seals (a puff of white smoke on startup in the morning, sometimes -- no signs of sludge), and that it will cost $900 - $1200 to repair, I've looked into replacing it instead. I've driven the Accord, Passat, and Altima, but decided that the new car I would most enjoy driving until it craps out (perhaps prematurely again) would be another Camry. So yesterday I rented one and drove it 500 miles to see whether I'd really like it.

The driving experience is very similar to my current Camry. Some things have been improved, some are worse. (I'm 5'7" and the radio and A/C controls are a long reach for me.) But the big difference, and what will keep me from buying a new Camry unless a solution can be found, is the driver's seat. The front passenger seat and the back seat are all comfortable. But the driver's seat has an adjustable lumbar support that even at its minimum setting is sticking me in the back. An aftermarket lamb's wool seat insert helped alleviate the pressure, but I was still feeling it at the end of the day.

I've seen comments from other people that the driver's seat in the '97 - '01 Camry didn't have enough lower back support. (For me it's comfortable.) I think Toyota heard the complaints but went to the opposite extreme.

Does anyone know what's inside the seat there? Is it an air bladder? If so, what would happen if you let ALL the air out? Would the seatback collapse inward? Can anyone suggest any other solution?

As of now, it looks like the dealer will be reaching into my wallet for another $1200. For an engine that should have lasted a lot longer.

Reply to
sangfroid
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Your problem with the white smoke is not uncommon for a car with your mileage and year. A $1200 repair is well cheaper then another $20K for a new car.

On the topic of seats, I can understand what you are saying. I too am 5'7", and although I do no find any issues with reach or comfort behind the wheel, I do admit the seats could offer more cushioning. My last car (1999 Ford Taurus) had more cushioning. I will say that the seating position is better on the Camry since when you adjust the height/lumbar settings, the position is very nice.

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Reply to
Car Guy

Those leaking valve stem seals IMO, are more of a nuisance, than a problem. My car has no sludge, and has been smoking only on startup for almost 60 K miles, with no loss of oil between 3k changes. If you can live with it, it should be fine for a long time.

As far as seat comfort, I agree, but in a different way. The seats on my 03 Camry SE are much more narrow, especially at the end compared to my 94. Also, they seem short in the seat area, and cause thigh discomfort on extended trips. Guess in order to get that larger center console, something had to give. It seems like you sit ON, not IN the seats of this newest generation Camry.

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Reply to
Platil

You can buy allot of oil for $1200 (and that assumes it is even burning enough oil to measure between changes). Maybe that psychological puff in the morning is bothering you. I wouldn't spend $1200 due to a puff in the morning.

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Reply to
phil

In news: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com, sangfroid being of bellicose mind posted:

There is likely NO need to replace the "engine seals".... which refers to the valve guide seals. The smoke symptoms you describe happen to some engines a bit early and to ALL engines eventually. It is NOT a threat to engine reliability. Now that you are aware of the matter, keep a close eye on your oil for about a month to see just how much (or really, how LITTLE) oil your Camry is consuming. I'll bet you find the consumption is negligible.

Drive on with confidence.

Reply to
Philip ®

At $9-1200 I'd pass on the repair if it is just at start up and especially if only sometimes. Try a slightly heavier weight oil if you are using 5w30.

As for the seats - I have an 03 SE and am quite happy with seats in it (the charcoal fabric is a lint magnet is only complaint) --- radio controls can be had on the steering wheel so you don't have to reach. Or get aftermarket one with the remote fob.

Reply to
Wolfgang

Thanks for the comments.

I think I will go for the repair sooner rather than later because I'm concerned about what it's doing to the exhaust system (yes, I know, the catalytic converter would have to be replaced eventually anyway, but the dealer says the smoking will accelerate the need for a new one) and for the very low-tech reason that the car is starting to stink up my garage.

Oddly, with the seat insert yesterday that helped my lower back, my thighs were getting sore. My thighs also got sore when I first got the '97 until I had an auto upholsterer insert an extra pad of cushioning just below the seat cushion fabric The extra cushioning raised up my legs relative to the high front edge of the seat cushion. (There is no tilt adjustment on the '97 LE seat cushion. It is permanently angled upward in a way that can cut into your thighs.) The upholstery work, and tightening the hamstrings at the gym, helped end the sore thigh problem.

Maybe I will test drive the Accord again, but it seemed to me that while Honda softened the ride from earlier versions, it still had a harder ride compared with what I'm used to. Zippier handling, yes, but with the suburban and turnpike driving I do I seldom have the need for that. I have heard many stories of Hondas easily exceeding 100,000 miles with no problems. Too bad Honda isn't the one that favors soft rides and Toyota better handling, rather than vice versa. I would love to rent an Accord and push it for 500 miles like I did with the Camry, but no Honda dealer (at least in the Philadelphia area) seems to rent them.

My '92 Camry LE 4 also unexpectedly crapped out in '97. At 60,000 miles, the air vents were producing a really foul odor that smelled like the exhaust of an old car. Except it would do it while all alone, not near any other cars. After a few weeks of driving with the heat off, and three mechanics, each of whom had a different suggestion, none of which worked, I got rid of the car. I figured that was an isolated incident. Maybe it wasn't. Even if this seal problem is normal, I would not have expected it on a Toyota. (By the way, I never had any problems with the seats in the '92.)

Reply to
sangfroid

I would look hard at the Honda. A friend bought 2 used ones with tons of mileage. Both rattle and ride better than my 2001 Avalon with 15k miles. He bought the first one for his college bound kid but liked it so much bought a second for himself.

The Mazda 6 is supposed to be pretty good too though I've never been in one. My sister likes her older 626 but the backseat is horrible (I've been there).

You might want to consider domestics. The reliability of the imports has been going down while the domestics have been improving. I won't say the domestics have caught up yet but the price differential for the imports may not be worth it any more in my opinion.

hamstrings at

expected it

Reply to
Art Begun

How dare you.

Reply to
Chris Aseltine

but decided that the new car I would most enjoy driving until it

Your engine will last a lot longer.

Personally, I don't like to have dealer or other mechanics do anything to my car, so we're approaching the problem from different directions. Around the same mileage with a four cylinder Camry, I too began to experience the puff of smoke on startup. I was able to eliminate the smoke on startup, and now 30,000 miles later it is still completely gone. You need to be able to change the oil however.

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So if the only reason for changing cars is the smoke on startup, this can resolve your problem for under $100, plus it may help your engine keep on going somewhere past triple your current mileage (ie. 250,000 miles).

Reply to
Daniel M. Dreifus

My 1994 started blowing smoke in the morning around 80,000 miles. After a similar quote as yours from 3 different places I replaced the PCV valve and it now has 150,000 miles with no smoke since then.

My 1997 started blowing smoke when I bought it from the dealer with

60,000 miles. They replaced rings and valve stem seals at their own expense, but now with 80,000 miles on it I have found oil in the air filter housing. I replaced the PCV valve in this car yesterday, hoping it will cure this problem.

I don't know anything about the new Camrys, but a few things I've seen I don't like. The big one is the exhaust pipe hanging far below anything else and making the car look ugly from behind. The other thing is how much it looks like a late model Taurus from front.

Perhaps you should look a little closer at the Altima. Toyota lovers here will blast me for that, but I have owned two Nissans and two Toyotas. Other than the refinement of the Toyotas, the maintenance costs of them has been similar. Three of my neighbors have Altimas and love them, and several other neighbors have other new models of Nissan they are well pleased with.

Reply to
badgolferman

Finally someone else thinks the Camry looks like a Taurus from the front.

My sister-in-law traded in a old Q45 for a new Maxima because she got tired of paying ridiculous sums of money to her Infinity dealer, but is a bit disappointed. Just feels light duty compared to the old Q45.

anything

lovers

Nissan

Reply to
Art Begun

Reply to
DoggyDaddy

Which Camry did you test drive?

I'm 5'7" and recently bought a 2004 Camry XLE with all kind of gizmo's to adjust the seat. I've put about 1300 miles on it in the last week and a half and am pretty happy with the comfort of the seats.

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Reply to
J Stutzmann

I test drove the XLE 4 but on Saturday rented the LE 4. If I bought a new one, I'd go for the XLE 4. I noticed the lower back pressure during the brief test drive and during the 500-mile marathon. I'm pretty sure both versions have the same seat. The LE I rented had a power adjustable lumbar support. It just wasn't adjustable enough.

Yes, it's ugly, especially from the back. But that wouldn't keep me from buying one.

I test drove the Altima. The seat was comfortable, but it had a choppy ride. I also test drove the Mazda 6 tonight and liked it. The 4 is powerful and it handled well. The seat was very firm but no bulges in strange places, so it didn't bother me. The ride is firmer than the Camry's but not choppy.

The major downside is that the car just seems kind of small and cramped. Also, the wing bolsters in the driver's seat keep you in place, but they result in a relatively narrow channel side to side for your butt and legs. And I'm no widebody.

The car performs well, but it't not serene. In my Camry I've taken four cross-country trips now (Philadelphia to Seattle, Tucson, Salt Lake, Yellowstone). On the way out and back it's always 600 miles a day, 10 hours a day with stops. I'm not finished, either. The next destination will be Las Vegas. With its ride and room, the Camry makes that kind of trip possible. So I was thinking: would I look forward to taking such a trip in a Mazda 6? And even though I enjoyed driving it, I had to answer: probably not.

I will keep the Camry, repaired or not. And I will review my records to see if the dealer has ever replaced the PCV valve.

Reply to
sangfroid

I wanted to get the XLE V6 but didn't want to spend about $6K more for the toys. I ended up getting the LE V6 and its just fine.

Reply to
Car Guy

If your going to consider the XLE and you do a lot of driving I'd think about the V6 with the option of Side Curtin air bags and Vehicle Stability Control. [you can get side curtins on the 4's but not VSC] I found I could get a Camry XLE V6 for about the same as an Accord EX V6 with comparable equipment plus VSC on the Camry. The Camry has a little more interior room and I can definately cram more stuff into the trunk. I've been driving it back and forth to West Lafayette [Purdue vs Northwestern and Purdue vs Iowa] & Indianapolis from Springfield IL for these past two weeks. Rides like a dream IMHO.

Reply to
J Stutzmann

Actually if you play around with the settings of the chair, you can find a good comfort zone. Here is what I did:

- lower the chair to the lowest setting

- move the chair 1 turn up to level the chair

- move the chair forward till your reach of the steering and foot controls are good

- adjust the back of the chair till you sit upright and not slumped in

- adjust the lumbar support till the lower back support touches but not presses against the back

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Reply to
Car Guy

My 97 started to have that puff of smoke on startup at around 80,000 miles. I switched to some of the higher mileage oils that contain an additive to swell the rubber seals a bit. Worked fine, now passing the 170,000 mile mark with no oil use between changes...

Reply to
ROBMURR

Some acutally are just thickeners so the oil doesn't pass thru the weak seal. Not a good idea for some engines.

Reply to
Art Begun

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