valve 'clacking' in 2 liter air-cooled.

The 78 engine has hydraulic valve lifters in it. Because they lay horizontal, the oil hole will sometimes be pointing down as they rotate. When you shut the engine off and a lifter oil hole is pointing down, the oil in the lifter will drain out in a few days time. that is why you get the clacking noise. Starting the engine and letting it idle normally will not get the lifter pumped back up. You have to drive the bus anywhere from 5 to 15 miles to quiet them. No, it justs sounds bad, does not do any real damage.

horizontal, the oil hole will

and a lifter oil hole is

that is why you get the

pumped back up. You have to

....................You're right about driving it to get the lifters pumped back up again but I take issue with your theory about how they collapse while the engine isn't running. Inorder for the oil to leak out, the piston & lifter body have to be badly worn out. Air gets in to the lifter to displace the oil because the piston is too loose inside the bore of the lifter body. If this engine was ever rebuilt which sounds probable, I'd guess that the rebuilder 'forgot' to install new hydraulic lifters while it was being reassembled. New lifters would not collapse even over a period of two months. The original poster will now have to pull the engine and remove the heads to replace the lifters with a new set along with new OEM type pushrod tubes, if he wants this problem to go away.

You do NOT have to remove the heads on a typeIV engine remove the lifters or the pushrod tubes. You do NOT have to replace the tubes with any new style tube. And you do NOT have to pull the engine!

Funny how you are the only person in the world that claims worn out lifters causes this. I have 2 Westies with over 500,000 miles on them that use hydraulic lifters. Even BRAND NEW lifters clatter after sitting for a week.

or the pushrod tubes. You

................My direct experience is with waterboxers and type 1's only but I assumed that the type 4 issue with lifters had some commonality. If you say that its possible to replace OEM type pushrod tubes while the heads remain in place, I'll give you that. I'd prefer to follow the procedure in the Bentley manual myself. If you think that used pushrod tubes can be re-installed without leaking, you're a lot more brilliant than most of the rest of us who have worked on VW's over the years. Pulling the engine is a very good way to make any major job easier when dealing with a boxer style engine but it's always possible to make things more difficult with 'shortcuts' like trying to leave the engine in place. Anything is possible if all you really want to do is prove your point whatever that is.

lifters. Even BRAND NEW lifters

...............New Mexican type 1 engines with hydraulic lifters can sit for prolonged periods (in the shipping crate) and then start right up without ANY lifter clatter. It's been documented right here on this newsgroup by others. I'm not the only person in the world who understands how high mileage hydraulic lifters leak oil out and become filled with air because they're worn out. I have logged over 20,000 miles per year for more than 13 years in 5 different waterboxers and I've done major teardowns on 3 of them and EVERY TIME that I replaced the hydraulic lifters with new German ones, I was able to completely eliminate this clatter problem. If you have a clatter problem with new lifters, go to a real mechanic and let him try to sort out what you or Boston Bob did to screw up your engine.

The type 4 engine pushrod tube and lifter design is very different from the T1.

To pull the tubes, you remove valve cover, rocker assembly, and rods. Then you pull the tubes out through the head. They don't have a "crimping" accordeon section that compresses during assembly. They seal with O-rings.

The lifters too can be pulled after this excercise. They have no "lip" at the base where they meet the cam lobe. They're perfect cylinder shape pieces that slide in the bore. They can slide all the way out if there's no rod keeping them in.

Jan

no direct experience with type 4 but with hydraulics or any liquid filled cylinder the fluid can indeed come out through the oil hole(lifters here) if it is positioned downward....liquids flow....the oil runs out of the galleries after long periods of sitting, so its not hard to think the same could happen to the lifters....turn up your wifes dishsoap with the top open....don't squeeze it, but the sucker will drain eventually....

Hey! Thanks to everyone who responded! The real heart of my question, at THIS point, is

- - - - - AM I DOING DAMAGE!?- - - - - I'f I'm REALLY not and it's only a little extra noise then, for now, I'm just going to ride with it. If anyone has strong views (or feelings) indicating that I'm irreparably DAMAGING my 2-litre by allowing the continuation of this clack-clack-clack .. PLEASE make your views known here!!! Thanks again! Terry

Pop open the valve covers and check that all valve adjustment screws and their retaining nuts are tight. Run the engine with good oil at arond 3000rpms for a good while, on your next test drive. That should fill the lifters fairly quickly

Jan

An old General Motors fix for tired lifters was to replace a quart of engine oil with a quart of automatic transmission oil for about 100 miles. The ATF would dissolve any built up varnish that was causing the lifter check valve not to seat properly.

Was that one quart out of 5 for their engines, so if he were going to try that trick he'd use closer to 1/2 quart?

................Well, I knew that I didn't know $h!+ about type 4 engines and now you've convinced me that I was right....................lol

.............Boxer style engines have horizontal lifters which make it theoretically possible for some oil to drip out of a downward facing hole on a lifter. However, if that lifter has a within spec tolerance between the lifter bore and the piston, it won't allow any air to enter and displace the oil. This makes it necessary for the air to come in through the same small hole that the oil is escaping through. Your dishsoap bottle is flexible enough to draw air back in as it flexes in and out. That hydraulic lifter is not. Once again: Brand new Mexican longblocks with hydraulic lifters have been known to start right up without any noticeble lifter clatter. My own experience after installing new hydraulic lifters in high mileage waterboxers is that it completely cures this problem. Boston Bob can sniff my shorts. Don't get me started on him as it would get me too worked up to watch tonight's episode of Survivor Palau.

timmy

..................Modern engine oil chemistry has put that old trick to rest. It's remarkble how little slug & varnish is inside the engines of today compared to forty years ago when I was helping my dad rebuild GM & Fords in his shop.

So...you're saying I shouldn't be using this 40 year old oil I bought on Ebay? Drat!

We knew you were right about that all along, Timmy! :-D

do you find it odd that this would happen?

Your dishsoap bottle is flexible

it was just a quick example as i had just cleaned up a dishsoap "spill"...LOL...however even my steel oilcan will leak if it is left laying on its side...no flex there...hell fill a nice glass bottle(with screw on top) up with oil, and use a jet drill for the hole in the lid...put it upside down, go to work....come home later and clean up the big ass mess......

. Once again: Brand new Mexican longblocks with hydraulic lifters have

i have read right here on this group about the juicers leaking down over time and making a hell of a raquet for awhile after starting again....as i said i have no personal experience with the type 1 with juicers, just what has been written here...and it has been mentioned several times over the years...

Boston Bod did not design hydraulic lifters so don't blame him and only wussies watch survivor......

I just did a valve job on my 70 bug. It was amazing how filthy the rocker arm assemblies were. Maybe the oil is better but what makes the oil dirty is the same. For the few pennies that it would cost, maybe the ATF solution might solve the problem. I certainly won't hurt. Like Shag wrote, I would use 1/2 quart in the 2 1/2 quart sump.

I'm watching it right now. grrr...

...................YAAYYYYYYY !!!!!!

........They just voted James the redneck off the island.

timmy