Passat 4motion opinions

I have had mine (same model) for over three years now. With it you get arguably the best AWD system out there. VW/Audi's TorSen center diff- based system strikes a good balance between performance and safety. You don't have electronics or clutch packs suddenly messing with the front/aft torque distribution when you don't expect it. Rather, it is smooth and deviates only gently from 50/50. Likewise, the ABS-based traction control will not let you win races (because you lose some power when it is activated), but it is the best system at lower speeds on ice and snow, since it will not allow wheel spin and does not add weight and unpredictability the way front and rear limited-slip differentials do.

Subaru's VTD/VCD system on its more expensive AT models may be similar in snow/ice performance but has a lot more electronic intervention, to the point that in some reviews, it almost got nowhere on slippery snow.

Note though that you also need to have the right tires, and if you get snow for an entire season (rather than two-three small snow falls) I would strongly recommend to get real summer and winter tires, not the all-season compromise.

Rain driving has been great, but at ~25,000 miles (now >45,000 miles) the factory tires became hard and noisy, and are worn now - I will need to replace them before the winter rains start. I can't recommend Michelin (4 times bad experience: limited traction, noisy, premature wear) but YMMV.

You can easily feel the AWD at work also on dry roads. For example, I find it makes it easier and safer to merge onto a busy road from a left turn (especially if there is grime/sand in the middle!). We don't get much snow where I live, so I let others comment on more extensive snow/ice driving experiences. In the little snow driving I have been able to do the car has behaved flawlessly. The clearance is good but limited - you won't be able to drive in 10" of loose snow.

Finally, remember that AWD does not help you when breaking - so keep it safe!

- D.

Had on last winter in Vermont, a 2002 model.

Was great.

Went thru everything.

We had several large storms, over 2 feet, too.

And to cap it all, the company is French.

The stock Continental TouringContact tires do not do the 4Motion system justice. They are OK, but not great. I upgraded to Michelin Pilot Sport A/S, which are excellent in the rain and snow. I have a long (0.5mile) gravel driveway that is quite steep in some places. The car negotiates this easily even with a couple of inches of snow. Ultimately, though, the clearance of the car limits the snow mobility. When the snow gets more than a few inches deep, I have to use my 4-wheel drive pickup truck to get out of the driveway. On normal roads, though, the Passat is fine as long as the county plows keep the snow level to a reasonable depth.

The Continental ExtremeContact tires have also been very well rated, and are much less expensive than the Michelin Pilot A/S. Or, if you want maximum snow traction, get snow tires like the Blizzaks. I don't need them with

4Motion and the amount of snow we get here in Virginia.

Use the Tiptronic system to keep the car in a low gear as you negotiate snow.

As with any other vehicle in low traction situations, keep it smooth and don't forget that 4Motion does nothing for braking and turning.

I have had very good experiences with my car in snow and rain, with the upgraded tires. The system is very unobstrusive, just staying in the background and doing its job quietly and competently. I don't hesitate to recommend it.

I was so totally frustrated when I drove the Passat V6 4Motion, I can't hardly express it in words. It's built on the same platform as the B5 Audi A4, and even has the same engine. But my father owned a 98.5 model A4 Quattro, with 5 speed and sport package at the time I drove the Passat, and for some reason the Passat was *much* slower than my father's car. The A4 tested 0-60 in around

6.9-7.0 seconds, the Passat needs like 8.6 seconds to reach 60. This may not be a big deal to everyone, but I think that something is ridculously wrong when a VW that's practically identical to it's Audi counterpart needs almost *2 seconds* longer to reach 60. My dealer has 2002 Passat W8 on the lot right now. It's BRAND NEW, a left-over that hasn't sold yet, and they're asking $34,000 for it. Only $2k more than a loaded V6 4Motion wagon....awfully tempting.

Well, the V6 4Motion (wagon or not) is certainly not a sports car. The slushbox is smooth but sucks away power, as does AWD drivetrain loss. Why is even the AT A4 noticeably quicker? I think, without having looked at it closely, it must be gearing. The VW is simply not geared for 0-60 times, it is geared for smooth power delivery from 30-80mph. For example, while it is a heck of a lot slower 0-60 than the (larger engine) Acccord V6, I believe it has better passing times.

For those who want a sportswagon, there are the W8, A4, A6, S4, RS6 etc.

I agree the W8 can be had for a good price right now. By the way, I paid 30K for my V6 4Motion wagon (and they are all loaded), so even your example really is a $4000 difference. What I like most about the W8 is the availability of a manual transmission (at least on paper. Has anyone seen one in real life in the US?).

One other thing: Next time you drive an AT VW, drive it spirited for a few hours (perhaps remove the battery briefly while stepping on the brakes to bleed out remaining voltage and memory). You will be surprised how much difference the adjusted driving style memory makes.

- D.

And the poster is est un incorrigible cretin.

- D.

The performance of my car improved markedly as the engine broke in. At 7500 miles, its engine performance is unrecognizable from when I drove it off the lot.

Still, as others have noted the Passat is not really a sport sedan. Not even the W8, which lacks the suspension tuning of a true German sports sedan. If you need an AWD sport sedan, take a look at the BMW 3-series X version or the Mercedes 4-Matics. The Audi S4 is also just out (4.2L V8 in an A4 body). I personally dislike SUVs, but I'm told that the Porsche Cayenne is actually a better sport sedan than many sport sedans.

For close to a hundred large, it better be.

-- Mike Smith

I wish there were a way to disable that "learning" stuff. I'll adjust

*my* behavior to match the trans, and I think I'll a little smarter than some dumb computer. (I know, I know, I shoulda got the stick.)

-- Mike Smith

I'd say the cretin is the bloke who can't even get straight which language he is discoursing in. Thus it may be that Transfixed meant to refer to himself as "Cretan" rather than "cretin" -- as in the famously self-referential " said the Cretan."

Hey, perhaps you can contribute to the question whether sets should be allowed to contain themselves? Perhaps no cretin after all, just an idiot savant? Woops, damn French words sneaking in again ? I have to do something about that...

I drove one last June when I ended up with a Passat 1.8t. They wanted $US40,000 for the 6-speed W8; I didn't want an automatic, and the V6

5-speed wasn't enough of an improvement over the 1.8t to justify the expense of moving up to a GLX. yeah I know in theory you can get a GLS V6 5-speed, but there weren't any. I didn't drive a 4motion because it's automatic-only. it'd be nice here in Minnesota, but I can handle snow-driving very well, thanks.

anyway, the W8 manual was an absolute scream. even at the non-discounted price I considered it, but reality won at the end of the day. I was offered several sad unwanted-looking W8 automatics for

33-34,000 but no thanks.

no regrets over the 1.8t either other than it'd be nice if it had a

6-speed too. oh, and bigger sun visors. I guess the sun is smaller in Germany than here :)

sweet, but I'm hoping by the time my lease is up in late 2006 that there will be a kick-ass TDI Passat available in the US assuming we get off the high-sulfur diesel fuel. I'm thinking a V6 or V/W8 TDI, mated to a 6-speed manual, with 4motion.

too bad the W8 has sold so poorly, but I think a big part of it is sticker shock ("$40,000 for a PASSAT? aieee!") and there's very little in its appearance to distinguish it from a plain GLS. that's not why I didn't lease one, though; I like the idea of a sleeper car, but the insurance on a W8 coupled with the jump in the monthly lease was a bit too ambitious for me this year. I would love to see a de-contented W8 without all the luxury bits; think of a GLS with a W8/4mo option. I hate leather upholstery and VW's wood trim looks cheap. er, in my opinion.

I think the Phaeton is going to be in the same boat. it just doesn't look like anything special. maybe that will attract some buyers.