Cost of repair Audi BMW Saab...(crossposting)

That would actually be the Hummer, original version

It can't....as a stock vehicle.

Land Rover's 4x4 system is not predicated on 4 wheels locked to one and other, but rather two axles locked to one and other. And the planetary center diff does not effect apparent torque transfer fast enough. Remember Land Rover's design is predicated upon the belief that planting 4 wheels, by their tremendous articulation, is the way to effect the best traction. But that won't cut it where the traction patch moves from one wheel to the other quickly.

Remember my comment was about vehicles in the US. When Defenders were available here locking axles were not an option. If LR now offers defenders out-of-box with locking axles then I have no doubt it would make the ramp, but as supplied here with open axles that is simply not the case.

In spite of that I do have agreement with LR that open axles create a more reliable offroading machine in most cases.

Being a Rover fanatic, it is unlikely enlightenment is in your future :^)

Joking of course, but really it is matter of the speed with which the 4x4 system allows the evidence of torque to the requiring contact patch as well as the ratio of torque being made availbable to a single contact patch. On the tri-roller the shift from roller to substrate happens in inches, and then happens again and again and it is the simple truth that only the Quadra-Drive and "x" vehicles make it.

One disclaimer here: The Hummer won't fit on a tri-roller, though I have liitle doubt it could make it easy. On our Moab runs Hummers, the real ones, not the H2's work as the gunners and they make most of the obstacles everyone else struggles with, easy, forward or backward. A truly, unbelievably, astoundingly, capable vehicle.

Most Landie people do :^) But everyone tries to drive over the *same* ramp. A ramp that basically forces any vehicle to drive with only one wheel, while moving that wheel around the four corners of the vehicle, quickly.

There are lots of 2 wheel drive Cherokees, lots of Quadra-Trac Cherokees, lots of bad tires, and lots of bad drivers. Out test is on "Quadra-Drive Grand Cherokees". You would have to be far more specific if I am to lend any credence to your experience on "country roads".

Ah...now you've earned another Landie merit badge. Bigger "nuts", you haven't said that yet though.

But I drive offroad, in the snows, muds, gravel and elevations of the Rocky Mountain as well as the slick-rock and formations of Moab, and we have all kinds of wheelers in our club and in almost every case it comes down to tires and driver. My personal opinion is that the most capable offroad machines are #1) Hummer (original) and #2) in no particular order: Jeep (TJ,YJ,CJ), D90 (not D110...too long), and a number of FJ's (indeed Land Cruiser probably makes the very best full line of offroad 4x4's).

Your insecurities caused to you to perceive my reply to be a comment against Land Rover. But I can only tell the truth.......it is your problem to inject a sense of proportion to your perpsective.

Reply to
Jess Englewood
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Would not surprise me.

BMW appears in the UK top 10 in the month of March. The data for the second quarter should be interesting as, possibly, fleet sales are declining with the changes in company car tax and increasing extended warranties (reducing risk and hassle for the private driver).

DAS

Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

Duhhhh.... No, I don't, Fred. I included the HP numbers as evidence of the motors having "similar power figures".

They're pretty damn close in that regard, as well. I'd post the car's weights, but I'm afraid you'd sarcastically ask me whether I thought if weight was a very good indicator of efficiency.

Reply to
dizzy

Huh?

How is it's torque "ridiculous", JP?

Huh?

What?

Same for the BMW, genius.

Reply to
dizzy

Reply to
Len S.

Reply to
Imad Al-Ghouleh

"Imad Al-Ghouleh" wrote

The subject was touched on in "Re: How much does an OEM e46 M3 hood weigh??" Think of it in the context of how much weight is on the rear wheels (or front wheels). When you lift your foot from the throttle, what happens: you are no longer causing a weight transfer to the rear of the car. If the lessened weight causes the rear tires to lose their grip *while the tires have a lateral load* (ie, you're in a turn), the rear will slip and the rear of the car will rotate towards the outside of the turn, resulting in oversteer (the car turns more than you've turned the wheel.)

FloydR

Reply to
fbloogyudsr

"fbloogyudsr" escribió en el mensaje news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com...

In the case of an M3, it is more the to the point mentioning that oversteer is generally the result of applying a generous amount of HP on the rear wheels at the beginning of a turn (ESP off), applying steering correction and then carry on modulating with the accelerator pedal and steering as the need demands.

Reply to
JP Roberts

Thank you. Why anyone would decide to play the "my car has more airbags than yours" game in a thread on Audi/BMW/Saab repairs is beyond me. Maybe Roberts, here, is doing a research paper on how many times he can totally divert a thread with non sequiturs ...

Same here. She even brags about it to her friends. BTW, you managed to snip off the *number* of the BMW up there: "507". No bags, no roll bars, popup or otherwise, no 'soft' or 'rounded' controls inside. Owner-added lap belts. Known leaky carbs (from the factory!) with the gas ducted from a catch tray down onto the ground. "EPA? Who's that?" Still, BMW's best 1959 drive.

-- C.R. Krieger (Been there; drove that.)

Reply to
C.R. Krieger

Thanks for the praise but if you check the posts in this thread, the one who started talking airbags when we were discussing RWD, FWD and AWD was Krieger:

////A stunning non sequitur. Even if it weren't a hopelessly desperate /////attempt to change the subject, *who the hell cares*? Driving *any* /////car is inherently unsafe! My BMW doesn't have *any airbags* - and I /////*like it* that way!////

When I wrote safest I was thinking of active safety, not airbags!

Reply to
JP Roberts

OK; you're on. Want to match autocross moves? Your Audi. My ancient BMW. Maybe you'd prefer to compare lap times at Road America ...

-- C.R. Krieger (Threshold brakes)

Reply to
C.R. Krieger

"C.R. Krieger" escribió en el mensaje news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com...

Now you will talk speed, not safety :)! Interesting enough that you mention threshold braking though, because I think that's something many people should learn to do. I don't doubt your BMW might be faster if you chose the road or circuit, but if I was granted the privilege of choosing my own road, then things would be very different.

Reply to
JP Roberts

You think so? Whaddya want? Sears Point? Going to the Sun Highway? Sebring? München to Interlaken? Watkins Glen? Yellowstone to Jackson Hole? Mid Ohio? Loveland Pass? The Amalfi Drive? Lime Rock? Oaxaca to Veracruz? Ohio 555? Aosta to the Matterhorn? I haven't even been to all those places (the most anal retentive researchers might discover it's all but one), but I'm ready.

-- C.R. Krieger (Been there; drove that)

Reply to
C.R. Krieger

I have owned all three makes. My current car is a 01 A6. repair costs for all are about the same, the difference is in how often they require repair. Now you can get complaints about every make and model out there, so you must understand this. here are the cars I have owned

A6 4.2 (current) 42k miles- no repairs

9-3 Saab Convt. Sold with 39k. bought with 22k, certified. was in the shop 8 times in 7 months, NONE of these were maintenance related. the shortest time in service was 4 days, the longest 3.5 weeks. probably the worst car I have ever owned. when running correct it was all kinds of fun and a joy to drive. A lemon, no doubt. got rid of it due to the breakdowns, all of which were covered by warranty, but totalled over 8k.

BMW 525 sold with 107K, in the shop one time for shocks, and lower control arms.

Audi 90 Q In the shop three times, once for starter, ignition switch and another for cat. converter. Sold for the Bimmer, great car though.

Audi 90 Q. same car as above, never in the shop until an accident at

60 mph in which a car tried to turn in front of me on the hi-way. I walked away, car was a complete loss.

Saab 900 convt. A/c o-ring replaced at 24k under warranty

So, drive each car, find as much as you can about it both the model and the specific car. call the VIN into a friendly dealer and they can help you with repair info. check the car out. any of these can be great, but as with any car they can also be nightmares. I am probably the only one on the earth that had a lemon of a honda, so you can never tell

spinny

Reply to
spinny

I've never met either of you, so I have no idea of your driving abilities. It would be interesting for you to race on any of those roads, exchange cars, and do it over again. That would help eliminate driver skill from the equation, assuming you were both fairly competent, and let the virtues of the vehicles be seen. That's what this thread was originally about, right? Well, no, but it would be an interesting comparison anyway. But then again, I'm not sure what model BMW and Audi you guys own - if the BMW was an older powerful RWD sportscar (like the 507) that was

1000+ lighter than a newer (safer) much heavier AWD Audi sedan, the BMW would run away with a race unless the road conditions were truly horrible. Racing a 3.2 TTq vs. a 3.0 Z4 would be more of a direct comparison for the AWD vs. RWD debate.

- Byron

Reply to
Byron

Just let me know when you're in Europe.

Reply to
JP Roberts

That shouldn't be too difficult, only 2500 miles across ;-)

Reply to
Johannes H Andersen

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