Odometer discrepancy

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wrote ...


E90 = Sedan E91 = Wagon E92 = Coupe E93 = Convertible
Tom
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wrote ...

Why did they take this model (the 3 Series) to create a different chassis designation for each car in the line-up?
Are the cars different -- other than the door count? In the past, the variations on the Series was still on the same chassis, the E36 came with 4 doors, 2 doors, or convertible. The E46 also had the 2- and 4-door variants, the convertible, and also had a station wagon . The E90 gobbles up three extra model numbers. Why?
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Seems to be the case with the 1,3,5,6,7 & Z4 series beginning a few years ago. Scroll down to the bottom of the Wiki page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_E90#Body_styles_and_models
Tom
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Ring BMW UK.
If you have the VIN, they should tell you what they know about the car, but not the owners.

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UK is funny that way, still miles and pounds and gallons, although litres and kilograms are becoming a little more noticeable here and there. But absolutely no Kilometers. Torque is seen more and more in NewtonMeters (particularly German cars). And it is petrol here. Gas is for heating purposes only:-). We also have Centigrades and virtually never Fahrenheit, which is only (some times) used for body temperature!
Vijay
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Jeff, this is the UK. You don't expect consistency and rationality, do you?
The legal distance measurement is the mile. All signs are in miles (or mph).
Yet the legal weight measure is the kg...(though I think there was a recent ruling one can continue in lb for loose food/fruit/veg).
DAS
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No wonder us Colonists had so much trouble with the metric system!
They tried to sell us a gallon of milk and called in .972 liters, or whatever the number works out to. If they just stopped bottling milk in gallons and started putting it in liter bottles, we would have figured out that a liter is a little less than a gallon. There's just under 4 liters to a gallon, but they sold gas by the liter but priced it by the gallon, or some such overly confusing scheme. The gas pump was a disaster, and pretty much tabled the entire scheme to put American on the metric system.
I thought you limey's did everything on the metric system, turns out you mix the Colonist's standard with the King's system. No wonder you have such a crappy attitude all of the time. ;-)

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Quite so....
Metric has actually been legally possible since the 30s but it was only in, I think the 70s that the government tried to push the change, declaring a 10-yr programme at the end of which only metric would be legal. This was then abandoned in favour of a voluntary scheme which, in general, actually worked, since industry has converted. We even tend to measure temperature in Celsius...
Just a few years ago it was decided to make metric weight the legal measure for pre-packaged foods. (I.e. if there is a dispute, the relevant number on the pack is the metric one.) Then loose fruit and veg etc were covered. Being the law-loving nation we are within weeks a small trader was prosecuted for selling in lb... there was, quite rightly, mockery and uproar...
The conversion to metric had exceptions.... draught beer is still sold by the pint (i.e. 568 ml) and so is (packaged) milk. However, milk is also sold in metric packs, i.e. 1 l, 2 l etc. You have to watch the pricing! In one shop the price of, say, a litre pack is the same as the (imperial) quart in another so, in a hurry, one just notices the similarity of price in a similar-looking container without realising there is an 11% discrepancy...
My almost-12-yr-old boy does not know what a pint is exactly, and how many inches are in a foot etc. Of course he has never heard of a perch or a chain (even though the cricket pitch is a chain (22 yd) between wickets...
Dear olde Englande...
Anyway, why do we want to be exactly like our neighbours? We already have a reputation for eccentricity - why change it?
I must add that Eire did change to metric for distance and speed as well years ago. Being Ireland, not all the roadsigns were changed simultaneously so for while there were km and mile signs up... I kid you not, I saw them myself...
DAS
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Dori A Schmetterling wrote:

Non-metric units can be present but mustn't be misleading or false. Some American "1 pint" ice cream tubs had to have new labels because of that.

Not quite. Prosecutions were for failing to display a metric price and/ or failing to have metric-capable scales. One of the 'metric martyrs' was prosecuted for overcharging while mixing metric and non-metric units. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_Martyrs
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Thx for the amendments. BTW, when I said metric was legal measure that did not preclude the display of any other units. UK goods had been displaying imperial and metric for years. The question was, which applied if an inspector, for example, checked the weight.
So, until metric became legal we had varying sizes of lb displayed on jam and other jars, mostly 454 and 453 g. Did not matter since the pound was the relevant weight. After the change 453 g meant 453 g, and not 454 g (though we can have a separate, even further OT discussion about average weights and limits thereof...).
If we get USA involved we'll have to have 'triple' labelling in volume cases....
DAS
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Dori A Schmetterling

Thanks for your response. You appear to know what you are talking about.
The US fluid ounce is used on labels in the UK and Ireland, particularly on cosmetics even though it is the wrong unit. For example: http://www.jurlique.co.uk/invt/100400 This has a label saying "200 mL 6.7 fl.oz.". If the imperial fluid ounce were used, it would say 7.0 fl oz.
The US fluid ounce may be tolerated because it is larger than the imperial fluid ounce. By contrast, the US pint, quart, and gallon are smaller than the imperial equivalents and would probably not be tolerated.
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BTW, going back a couple of steps, I am going to cite Wikipedia, because you did (even though I am rather wary of this source).
QUOTE Since 1 January 2000, all loose goods sold by reference to units of quantity must, by law, be weighed and sold using metric units, but traditional units may be displayed as "supplementary indications". UNQUOTE
I think I was right when I said that a small trader was prosecuted for selling in lb. He was the first case after the law was changed.
Yes, fluid oz (US) about 4% bigger than imperial. Interesting example you give. Never noticed things like that, probably since I never thought in oz. So long as the bottle contains 200 ml it's ok...
DAS
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Dori A Schmetterling wrote:

There have been several prosecutions involving several laws. Sorry to quote Wikipedia again but the information does appear to be consistent with other sources. ************************************************* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_martyrs In 2001, Steve Thoburn, the main defendant in the case, was convicted of two offences under the Weights and Measures Act of using weighing equipment that was not stamped by a Weights and Measures Inspector.[3] The stamps had been obliterated because the scales were not capable of weighing in the metric system as well as Imperial, and hence were no longer permitted for commercial use.[4] He was initially convicted and given a six month conditional discharge.[5] Thoburn died of a heart attack in March 2004.[6]
Colin Hunt was also convicted in 2001 of six offences under the Price Marking Order 1999 of failing to display a unit price per kilogram. In addition, he was convicted of four offences under the Prices Act 1974 of delivering a lesser quantity of goods than corresponded with the price charged.
John Dove and Julian Harman, were also convicted in 2001 of two offences under the Price Marking Order 1999 of failing to display a unit price per kilogram, and of two offences of using a scale that was only capable of weighing in the imperial system.
Peter Collins, who was prosecuted in 2000, was not convicted of any criminal offence. He appealed to the magistrates court to have laws on his street trading licence removed. These laws, which all traders are subject to, required him to label his goods in metric quantities with imperial quantities allowed only as optional, and less prominent, supplementary units. *************************************************

Quite. Manufacturers want to be able to sell the same container with the same label in all countries. Any manufacturer in a metric country has to pay the costs of relabelling when they want to enter the US market because metric-only labels are forbidden by US laws such as the FPLA. That is why manufacturers are lobbying for a change to remove the legal ban on fully metric products in the US.
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I am not disagreeing with your cases. I am just saying the first prosection (AFAIK), a few weeks after implementation, was the case I cited, i.e. for weighing and pricing in lb. Do disprove if you have the evidence.
DAS
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Dori A Schmetterling wrote:

Yes, I think we are talking about the same things. UK weights/prices: metric is mandatory, non-metric can be alongside. Failure to use metric is illegal. USA weights/prices: non-metric is mandatory, metric can be alongside. Failure to use non-metric is illegal.
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And just to confuse matters that little bit more, US gallon is, I think, 3.8 ltrs and the UK Imperial gallon more like 4.5 ltrs, making mpg figures for various cars much different either side of the pond. (I can never get my head around ltrs/100 km conundrum).
An update; I think Jeff was right. The odometer discrepancy seems to be a genuine error. The detailed vehicle report checks out as good. The dealer is very sure that there is no hidden damage as they have done a thorough inspection and service recently. I called BMW UK this am (thanks Mark) and the VIN is genuine; the cars manufacturing and first regisration date matches with the delaer's record.
In the UK, there has been a spate of articles in various car magazines how these high performance cars haven't sold much this last year and how many a bargain is there to be had. So I believe the dealer when he tells me (and shows me on the computer) that they had first advertised the car for 25K +, having acquired it themselves for 24K+.
So, moral of the story, I am picking it up this Friday!
Thanks for your help everyone.
Vijay
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And just to confuse matters that little bit more, US gallon is, I think, 3.8 ltrs and the UK Imperial gallon more like 4.5 ltrs, making mpg figures for various cars much different either side of the pond. (I can never get my head around ltrs/100 km conundrum).
An update; I think Jeff was right. The odometer discrepancy seems to be a genuine error. The detailed vehicle report checks out as good. The dealer is very sure that there is no hidden damage as they have done a thorough inspection and service recently. I called BMW UK this am (thanks Mark) and the VIN is genuine; the cars manufacturing and first regisration date matches with the delaer's record.
In the UK, there has been a spate of articles in various car magazines how these high performance cars haven't sold much this last year and how many a bargain is there to be had. So I believe the dealer when he tells me (and shows me on the computer) that they had first advertised the car for 25K +, having acquired it themselves for 24K+.
So, moral of the story, I am picking it up this Friday!
Thanks for your help everyone.
Vijay
<JS> Good luck. You're already a BMW owner, so except for the possible performance differences, your experience should be pretty much the same as what you're used to.
You can operate the pedals carefully and considerately, or with gusto and enthusiasm, and see pretty decent gas mileage numbers, or sucky numbers.
</JS>
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Jeff, I may have given the impression (inadvertantly) that I am new to M cars. In fact, since 1994, I have owned two E36s and an E46 M3. This will be my fourth M car. I already know E46 quite well and only sold my previous one for some compelling personal reasons. I have been driving BMWs since 1990 but almost all 3 series.
Yet, I still haven't quite gained even a fraction of the knowledge that is displayed on this forum. For instance, your detailed response was very illuminating and helpful. The dealer echoed your (and others' views) that Odometer interference in a modern M3 (or BMW cars in general) may not be impossible, but well nigh improbable.
Thanks once again!
Vijay
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Just make sure you get an official statement that the mileage record contains a typo - BEFORE you hand over any money. You don't want hassle when you come to sell...
DAS
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swapping WHAT for WHAT ? if your trading UP and the vehicle checks out after an inspection , it may not be a bad deal . the first thing that i would do is to run the VIN # to see if it is legitimate . you do realize that once you do the deal , you probably will have little recourse . regards , D.

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