Re: Chrysler is wise to avoid the hybrids

Smart thinking is at work if Chrysler avoids jumping on the bandwagon to

> develop hybrids. Its a short-term fad that can't last. > > Do the math. Tax credits have a lot to do with it. If hybrids had to > stand on their own two feet and not depend upon your (taxpayer) voluntary > contributions to this subsidized program, it would already have fallen > flat. Even with the tax credits is a bad deal. It will take you seven to > ten years to recover the higher initial cost, if repair costs after > warranty expiration don't eat up the savings in consumption. After that > seven to ten year period of time, there is no way you are going to escape > having to replace the sealed NiHydride battery pack. That will cost > several thousand dollars, putting you back at square one. The net savings > over the long run will be nil. > > I haven't driven a hybrid yet, but reports say its herky-jerky when the > gas > engine kicks in and takes over from the electric drive motor. At highway > speeds, I would anticipate LOWER mpg due to having to drag extra weight. > > The extra complication has been noted by General Motors. Extra > complication to me means more components to fail and service. Service is > highly specialized and is likely to be much more expensive than pure gas > or > diesel, which are already very expensive to maintain. > > Of all the parts in the system, the battery remains on my suspect list; we > all know batteries deteriorate over time and use and are definitely not > zero maintenance items over 7 to 10 year period of time. Manufacturers > are > saying the battery pack is good for 100,000 miles, but this is misleading. > If the test conditions are largely high speed test track running, then the > motor and battery get little workout coupled with the fact that 100,000 > miles can be racked up in a month or less of continuous test driving. If > the test conditions are mixed high and low speeds, the 100,000 miles can > be > logged in two months. In the real world, a heavy usage driver might do > 100,000 miles in a year (highway patrol) or three years (salesman). But > if > you are a 12,000 mile a year driver, it will take 8 or 9 years to get > there. Do you really believe the multi-thousand dollar battery pack will > last that long or be fully functional at the end of that time. It is > conceivable that even with a degraded battery pack, car engineers have > designed the vehicle to rely more and and more upon the gas engine and > less > and less on the electrics. Perhaps you start off with a hybrid and end up > with conventional powered car with a "check engine light" glaring at you > interminally. > > That is not to say that some features of a hybrid might not be useful to > improve upon conventional diesel power. Some hybrids have improved > streamlining, reduced weight, and low friction tires. All this would go a > long way towards higher performance with lower fuel consumption, which is > the goal, along with reduced emissions. It seems to me this is what the > public will gravitate towards, not hybrids. >
Reply to
David Cole
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Hybrids are pointless if you do mainly highway driving. But they can save quite a bit if all your doing is city driving. Consider in places like LA where you get on the highway and spend 2 hours stop and go traffic and you can see where the drive to go with hybrids comes from.

While battery packs don't last forever, the battery is warrantied at 100,000 miles, if they all fail a year after the warranty expires that will kill the hybrid sales of that automaker. Toyota already took flack on battery problems, they issued a recall for the early model batteries.

One thing that will kill batteries is this quote from the owners manual:

"If you do not use the vehicle for a long time (2 weeks or more), the hybrid vehicle battery and auxiliary battery will discharge and their condition is liable to decline. Therefore, in order to make up for discharging, charge them once in every two weeks for about 30 minutes by starting the hybrid system with all electrical components turned off."

Toyota will not replace batteries under warranty that have been left discharged for long periods of time.

Actually, what I think will happen with a lot of these Priuses is once they age and are discarded by their original owners, they will go straight into fully electric cars. There's already a company doing it:

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and instructions for how to do it are on the Internet here:

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I frankly an looking forward to the day that I can buy a 15-year-old Prius with a shot motor and a shot battery for a few hundred bucks, I know what I'll be doing with it. Full electric! With the commuting driving that I do today, I could easily go full electric on a commuter car. And I already have the garage wired for

50 amp 220 volt service...

Ted

Reply to
Ted Mittelstaedt

The batteries, when you have to pay market price for them, will be the deal breaker.

The cheapest battery that is halfway suitable IMO is a NiCd built from unairworthy turbine aircraft starting batteries. All aircraft mechanic schools have large numbers of these well-cased, separate cell assembled batteries because they are subject to somewhat ridiculous rules and are hazardous waste when scrapped. The key is to get aircraft shops to sell them to you for $1 when they are still very marginally airworthy, or to agree to let you have them for educational purposes with the understanding you will pay to recycle them when they die. I realize NiCd is less than the most desirable chemistry but the price can be right.

Rather than a Prius, I would consider a full sized platform such as a Chrysler New Yorker or Imperial of early '60s vintage, a commercial chassis Cadillac, or even a RR Shadow or Camargue (they can come up cheaply if mechanicals are bad enough!). I would fit a DC motor/axle unit at the rear, possibly a transverse manual minivan or Cadillac manual transaxle, and a small genset in the front. Commercial stationary gensets are out of the question but a Subaru engine mated to a large bus alternator , or a Honda Gold Wing likewise, might do. More exotic alternatives are the small turbine APUs for helo and bizjet use or the Coventry Climax diesel APU used in Brit tanks.

Such a vehicle could carry a really good payload of the surplus batteries.

Reply to
calcerise

Yep.

So far so good...

Er...huh? What would this transaxle of yours be for? Surely not for gearing the drive motor...!

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

The drive motor has to go either sideways or front-and-back. If you want sideways, you will have to adapt a transaxle. Front and back means either heavy motor mounting and a driveshaft or building a flange mount to go on the axle directly. A FWD transaxle could be adapted with not much more work as a De Dion setup if you didn't want A-arms and linkage. I don't think there is an off-the-shelf motor/axle package available.

Reply to
calcerise

...unless they're integrated into the hubs.

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

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