Light Duty vs Heavy Duty parts?

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Slightly confused on this issue.
Are LD and HD trucks based on model designations like, Dakota and 1500 are LD, 2500 and 3500 are HD or does this have more to do with
various options available on any truck like Engine/transmission/axle ratios or is it more suspension related?
More importantly, Were gas 5.9s available in both LD and HD trucks? Were both available in either 2WD or 4WD? Were 5 speeds available in both designations and were there gear ratios between the two different? Is the engine mapping different from LD to HD and if so, which PCM is more suitable for "performance" applications?
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With a few exceptions, yes. For instance, back in the mid-90's, there was a 2500LD available.

5.9's were available in both Dakotas (some variants - I believe only the Dak QC and R/T could be had with the 360) and Ram 1500's, but only with automatics. They were available in 2500's and 3500's with either automatic or manual transmissions.

Yes
Yes for all platforms, with the above-stated exception that you could only get Dak's and 1500's with 5spds coupled to either the 5.2L or 3.9L engines. There were slight differences in gear ratios between the NV3500 (in the Dak and 1500) and the NV4500 (available in the 2500/3500). Obviously, input torque ratings were different, as well.

In some years, only slightly so. I seem to remember the 360 in the 2500/3500 platforms being rated at maybe 5lb.ft. more torque - or something pretty insignificant. That torque difference could easily have come from different exhaust configurations, too.
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In my 92 service manual it shows the 5.9 HD setup. Has dual exhaust with both mufflers on the right side.
Al
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> Z88Z wrote: > Slightly confused on this issue. > > Are LD and HD trucks based on model designations like, Dakota and 1500 are LD, 2500 and 3500 are HD or does this have more to do with various options available on any truck like Engine/transmission/axle ratios or is it more suspension related? > > More importantly, > Were gas 5.9s available in both LD and HD trucks? > Were both available in either 2WD or 4WD? > Were 5 speeds available in both designations and were there gear ratios between the two different? > Is the engine mapping different from LD to HD and if so, which PCM is more suitable for "performance" applications?
Thanks Tom,
I am planning a 5speed swap into my 98 5.9 ZJ Jeep. I'm trying to figure which is the closest ratio of the NV tannies and which 5.9 PCM has the closest mapping to my ZJ so I know what trucks to look for.
It would be configured for street rather than offroad so I really don't want the NV4500 and the granny 1st gear. It's a shame as I gather they are close to bulletproof with the exception of some 5th gear problems.
I'm trying to decide between the NV3500 or the NV3550. Neither one is a great trans in terms of durability but my choices are limited. The NV3500 will be a direct fit but it would seem odd to have a manual trans without a removeable bellhousing. The NV3550 can be adapted with some minor relieving of an AX15 bellhousing from a 3.9 motor. Did they come behind 5.2s also? I believe the NV3550 was only used on the Wranglers and does not have a factory 3.9 or 5.2 bellhousing but I could be wrong, and I don't think the 5.9/NV4500 bellhousing will fit the NV3550.
I'm still trying to solve the PCM swap question regarding the ability to reflash my VIN into a used PCM. I hear it can't be done but others say it can. 95% sure I need my VIN in the PCM so the machine doesn't reject it during the MA emissions inspections. So I figure I would be using the PCM from a 98 5.9 5spd Ram.
I also have a few Dodge/Jeep/Auto/Manual transfer case swap compatability questions that I will be posting in the next day or two.
Thanks again for the good info - John
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Tom's data is correct, but what he did not say is the RAM 1500 manual computer works fine with the 5.9. You do have to use the 5.9 injectors though and the injector electrical connectors are different, so you have to modify the 5.2 wiring harness accordingly. Also the NV3500 is plenty strong enough for the 5.9 in a 1500 ram, so it'll be a piece of cake in the Dak. Please also remember that the 5.2 is internally balanced and the 5.9 is externally balanced, so you must use the 5.9 manual flywheel and pressure plate from the 2500/3500 along with the clutch disc from the 5.2 (NV3500 pilot shaft spline). Depending on the year of the PCM and harness, you may have either 1 or 2 Oxygen sensors and 1 or 2 water temp sensors. You will be amazed just how fast this setup is right out of the garage door, even with the dual throat throttle body, iron manifolds and single exhaust. On another of your points, the gear spacing of the NV3500 is perfect for your application. You should run a 30 inch tire and a 3.55 axle. That will give you 85 MPH at 2500 in 5th. With just a little care you will see 17+ MPG. Steve

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> Steve Lusardi wrote: > Tom's data is correct, but what he did not say is the RAM 1500 manual computer works fine with the 5.9. You do have to use the 5.9 injectors though and the injector electrical connectors are different, so you have to modify the 5.2 wiring harness accordingly. Also the NV3500 is plenty strong enough for the 5.9 in a 1500 ram, so it'll be a piece of cake in the Dak.
> Please also remember that the 5.2 is internally balanced and the 5.9 is > externally balanced, so you must use the 5.9 manual flywheel and pressure plate from the 2500/3500 along with the clutch disc from the 5.2 (NV3500 pilot shaft spline). Depending on the year of the PCM and harness, you may have either 1 or 2 Oxygen sensors and 1 or 2 water temp sensors. You will be amazed just how fast this setup is right out of the garage door, even with the dual throat throttle body, iron manifolds and single exhaust. On another of your points, the gear spacing of the NV3500 is perfect for your application. You should run a 30 inch tire and a 3.55 axle. That will give you 85 MPH at 2500 in 5th. With just a little care you will see 17+ MPG. > Steve
The 5.9 came with an NV3500 application? Was that 4WD or 2WD? I thought they never had anything except the NV4500 behind the 5.9.
Great info from you once again but I think you are confusing part of it with the person that posted about a 5.9 into a 5.2 Dak. My NV swap is to replace the 46RE in my 98 5.9 ZJ Jeep.
The nuts and bolts of this swap seem pretty straightforward. I knew about the 5.9 balance and using the right flywheel but I did not know about using the 5.9 pressure plate with a 5.2 clutch disc. I wonder if those parts can be bought separately?
I plan on using the computer from a 98 5.9 manual Ram. I know the PCM and harness are physically direct swaps with the Jeep parts but I might need a wire or two swapped/added/deleted at the connector.
The deal in MA is, the emissions inspection machine enters the vehicle VIN right out of the PCM, and it has to match the actual vehicle VIN so I need my VIN in it.
Still having a heck of a time finding out if it is possible to burn my VIN into a used PCM out of another truck. I hear you can't flash a VIN if the PCM already has one but I have also heard there are ways it can be done. Still researching that part of it.
I can get it flashed into a new or remanufactured PCM for the same application but I'd like to keep this swap to used parts if possible.
I'll be posting in the next day or so about the Jeep/Dodge/46RE/NV3500 transfer case swap compatibility. Maybe you'll be able to help on that too.
Thanks again folks - John.
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So, do you work for Amtrak in Boston??
Roy

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I don't know about NV3500 with a 5.9 offering, but it was offered in the 5.2. Since the bell housing fits both, there is no issue. Use the 5.2 housing. Steve

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The issue is that the NV3500 is not rated for the torque output of the 360 which is why you could not get the 360 with a 5 speed in the RAM 1500 series.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving
"Steve Lusardi" < snipped-for-privacy@lusardi.de> wrote in message
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> Roy wrote: > So, do you work for Amtrak in Boston?? > > Roy
Yup :-)
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That being so, I probably know you. What do you do? How long you been working there?
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Roy wrote:

So what's with Amtrak???
I tried to put my bike aboard the "Vermonter" from DC to Amherst, MA for a bike tour I recently completed and they no longer take bikes or even any sort of checked baggage!
Some years ago I threw my touring bike on the Vermonter in Amherst and rode up to St Albans on the VT/Quebec border to ride home and it was no problem and only $5 for the bike, and a great experience over all. Was hoping to do the same from DC, but not no mo!
So much for mixing bikes and trains. Bummer!
SMH
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wrote in message

Probably no baggage car on the train.

Until they fund Amtrak properly it is destined to be hit or miss.
Roy

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> Z88Z wrote: > Slightly confused on this issue. > > Are LD and HD trucks based on model designations like, Dakota and 1500 are LD, 2500 and 3500 are HD or does this have more to do with various options available on any truck like Engine/transmission/axle ratios or is it more suspension related? > > More importantly, > Were gas 5.9s available in both LD and HD trucks? > Were both available in either 2WD or 4WD? > Were 5 speeds available in both designations and were there gear ratios between the two different? > Is the engine mapping different from LD to HD and if so, which PCM is more suitable for "performance" applications?
Steve L./TBone/Roy
Ya, I guess I misread something there. I knew the 4500 was the only manual but I thought someone was saying there was a 3500 available. My mistake!
Looks like the 3500 is the one to use. But did Dodge ever use the NV3550 behind 3.9 or 5.2s in 2000 or 2001 or were they still using the NV3500s?
Anyone know about the swap compatibility between Jeep/Dodge/Auto/Manual transfer cases? I think I'll start another post on that. Hopefully in a few minutes.
Roy - I drive the trains. Currently in the yard. That's "Big A" not MBCR.
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Hmmmm.... Did16 with the B&M. Suffered through with Amtrak until MBCR took the Commutor Rail. Retired last April. 22years IAM 13 years ARASA. Mostly outside points, and afternoons at So Station.
Tell Joanie B. I said Hi!. She still there?
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> Z88Z wrote: > Slightly confused on this issue. > > Are LD and HD trucks based on model designations like, Dakota and 1500 are LD, 2500 and 3500 are HD or does this have more to do with various options available on any truck like Engine/transmission/axle ratios or is it more suspension related? > > More importantly, > Were gas 5.9s available in both LD and HD trucks? > Were both available in either 2WD or 4WD? > Were 5 speeds available in both designations and were there gear ratios between the two different? > Is the engine mapping different from LD to HD and if so, which PCM is more suitable for "performance" applications?
Roy,
Joanie pulled the pin last year. Paul Fawkes (Folksie) and Ron Saltys too.
I think JB was the longest serving female Engineer in the Northeast and maybe the country! Chris Perrone passed away last year. (he was the one that dressed like the Engineers of days gone by)
I'm sure I'd know you if I saw you. I rode the Acelas for Bombardier out of BOS from 2001 to 2003. Then Amtrak HSR mechanical 2003 to 2004 (my coworkers were Randy Gould and Martin Flaherty, both returned to MBCR since then) Went into the Engineer training program in March 2005 and got set up Nov 1, 2006.
The T actually wants Amtrak back. Not too happy with MBCR. We finally got a contract proposal after 7 years without one. It'll get voted down though. No back pay etc. The Amtrak police signed theirs. They took a beating.
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Some real good folks left. Joanie was good friends with my wife many years ago when they worked on board together.

I heard about Chris. Don't forget Doug Kidd regards manner of dress.

I know Randy very well but I'm a lot closer to his brother in law Kevin Lydon. Marty is one hell of a smart guy, can fix about anything.
You probably should have jumped to MBCR yourself. They probably are looking for engineers with the oc opening up more. Then there are a number of folks leaving in the next year.

Don't believe all you hear. When I left the T wanted to extend the contract with MBCR for another 3 years. Why would the T want to deal with a company that can't make a operational decision without a bunch of calls to a m/t suit in Philly? They will never revisit Amtrak and all the labor problems they had to deal with. With the T it is all politics.

As long as Amtrak can run and get a presidential e board you won't get anything worthwhile. If you see 2% a year I'd be surprised. MBCR was 25% over 5 years, medical stayed the same one of the best contracts that have been ever been signed.
On that vein, see if you can find out how much management increases's were over that same 7 years.
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> Z88Z wrote: > Slightly confused on this issue. > > Are LD and HD trucks based on model designations like, Dakota and 1500 are LD, 2500 and 3500 are HD or does this have more to do with various options available on any truck like Engine/transmission/axle ratios or is it more suspension related? > > More importantly, > Were gas 5.9s available in both LD and HD trucks? > Were both available in either 2WD or 4WD? > Were 5 speeds available in both designations and were there gear ratios between the two different? > Is the engine mapping different from LD to HD and if so, which PCM is more suitable for "performance" applications?
Stephen H, Yes, unfortunately that seems to be a pattern here. Trying to increase the ridership while taking away services and amenitites at the same time. It might have been the lack of a baggage car for that trip though.
Roy, Just got a copy of a letter that was sent to our negotiators explaining our displeasure and asking that Jimmy Hoffa get involved. You knew we became BLE-T right?, the T being for teamsters. I think that was while you were still here. Tomorrow night is the big union meeting. We'll see what happens.
Yes, Doug K is certainly one of a kind :-) Interesting you should mention his name. Doug was working as a fireman with the father of my current landlords when the father retired in 84'. I have been staying with some good friends, a family in Dedham since I went into the Engineer training program. The woman of the house is the daughter of Ray "Civvy" Civaterese. You probably know him.
He started out as a Fireman with the B&M in steam days and was one of the first B&M Engineers to come South Side when Amtrak took over commuter service. A lot of people that can't place the name remember him as the guy that kept the garden at South Station near track 1 before the high platforms were built. Dan O'Brien remembers him. You must know Danny too. MBCR Gen Foreman, then to Amtrak and HSR before he went to engine school. Ray is doing OK but he doesn't walk around too easily now. Still has his greenhouse and plenty of flowers. Grows extra for the school to sell at their money raising fair. Doug dresses pretty normal now. I had a regular run on saturdays with Doug, Dean Davidson and Johnny Newman on an Acela. I was surprised to find out all four of us had experience working with steam locos at various museums. Mine was at the Gold Coast RR museum in Miami from 91 til 94 when we moved back up here. Hurricane Andrew mowed that place down when I was there but most of the equipment survived and I guess it has been rebuilt better than it ever was. Lots of new equipment now too. E & F units etc. Dean and John were a fun group and great Conductors but Dean in particular hated the "newfangled" trains. I used to joke that he'd rather be on the Inland Route where they still run wooden coaches and make coal stops.
Marty Flaherty is a great guy and a good friend. I've known him since about 95 or 96 when we worked as subcontractors for Kawasaki on the 5 year rebuild at the old Improtek site. Our careers always overlapped since then. He went to Readville as an electrician, then became a Foreman at some point. I ended up there as a subcontractor again, doing QA and liason work between the T and the Amtrak workers on the ACSES installation.
Tough gig at first. Worked for Dick House but they thought I was Neil Mullaney's "spy" so I got a hard time. Lots of senior guys and union reps there, Cronan etc. and that was right around the time they were close to a strike. After a while they realized I wasn't there to hurt them and we became good friends. Dick House used to give me a heads up to pass on to them when we were having a "surprise inspection"! That helped smooth things. Met some great people, Pat Robinson, Rich Coakley, Lyons, Parker and a whole bunch more that I still see at South Station. Pat Robinson - Talk about an all around genius!
Taking the Readville shuttle home from that gig I ran into the Bombardier guys at South Station doing the Acela startup. I had worked with most of them in 94-95 as my first job in the subcontract business doing the red line 1800 series cars. Found out they needed trainriders around the same time my QA job ended so I went to Bombardier. By that time Marty F was a General Foreman at HSR. When the Bombardier job ended I went to Amtrak as a QA Inspector and my fellow QAIs were Marty, Randy and the well known Mike Fraites.
Within a month or two Randy and Marty went to MBCR and Mike "left the business" (that's all I'll say on that) The other guys did the QA job as inspectors at the facility but they hired me mainly as station protect for the morning Acela runs. That's what I did for Bomb the last few months after the trainrider program ended.
I did the whole Boston HSR Q&A thing by myself for about nine months working with Chris Furtado as the HSR GM (I think that was the title) after Paul Cottam retired. They liked my work and knew me all the way to NY and DC. They promised me I'd have a job when the QAI jobs dried up as NECMSC (Bomb & Alsthoms HSR management group) was being phased out but I got passed over for a job or two so I went to engine school.
If you visit the railroad look me up. I'll be the one that went to school for 11 weeks and trained for 16 months just to end up doing 5 mph and occasionally 15mph, most of it backwards! Actually I occasionally can hold a spare board position. Nothing like doing 125 or 150mph and it's legal! :-)
This site is one of the best ones for good informative responses thanks to Steve Lusardi, TBone and a bunch more.
Take care, John
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Yup, my brother in law is a engineer with MBCR

No shit!! The lady that rides a motorcycle and is probably still smoking. Make sure you tell her I said hello. I talked to her every night before she boarded the last Franklin local. Ask her how her shoulder is. I hadn't seen her since last Sept when I tore my shoulder up at work, then I was out until the last week of March and returned to work for 3 days and retired. Her dad I've known since 1972 one hell of a nice guy and a hell of a hogger.

Yup he did the planters around 1985-86 iirc mabey before.

I've also known Dan for about 35 years as well you want to get his attention call him Veronica he hasn't heard it for some time. How's his father? He was a heck of a nice guy. MBCR Gen

There is nothing "normal" regarding Doug.

I was there for some of that. Ya gott understand Neil is a pig! I can tell ya more stories about that asshole. He is the best example of why unions are need on that property.

Pat is a close personal friend of mine, he lives about a mile from me in MA. (I'm in FL now) Please tell Pat I was asking for him. He can tell ya some stories. I had to council him many times. If you are talking about Denny Parker, the piper, he just had a massive heart attack a week ago. I haven't heard how it all turned out.

Mike worked for me at a couple of outside points. Had to resort to old school railroading to get him into line. He was fired a couple of years ago at Amtrak.

There are two people you can never trust. I saw Chris on his knees tying a managers shoe for him. Cottam was a lying pos. I understand he was told to leave.
They liked my work and knew me all

There is a ton of info here on just about anything. Ya have to wade through some bs to get it at time's but it there. Hell when I'm going back and forth between FL and MA I get a traffic report for DC from one of the guy's.
Roy

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