Rusted Powersteering Pump Replacement 99 Caravan

I'm trying to get self prepared for a Power steering pump replacement on a 1999 Dodge Grand Caravan V6 3.0L. I'm reading that it is a P.I.T.A. job (Pain In The A$$). I'm armed with the Hayes repair
manual, a little common sense, basic tools, and an instruction guide from this link: http://www.cardone.com/English/Club/Products/Steering/Protech/Install_Instructions/93062720.asp
I've also been scanning the newsgroups and I'm surprised that there aren't more posts on this considering the hole rusted through in 6 only years of use. I guess it was no match for the WI salt. I found a post that hits it dead on, but it lacks information and the poster doesn't go into detail about installing. He mainly says how hard the pump was to get off. See it at this link: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.dodge.trucks/browse_frm/thread/7eb89e756544398d/78a2291d4c1bb0be?lnk=st&q ravan%20power%20steering%20pump&rnum=1&hl=en&
(History: I discovered the leak for about 4 weeks ago. It leaves about a 12" spot of fluid every 10 hour sitting. Out of desperation, I tried one of those stop leak juices. In fact 3 full bottles. I've never used any type of "stop leak" remedy before because I feel they just don't work. Well... as expected, it didn't. Last night I finally took a peek under the van and saw the bottom of the pump casing is bubbly with rust. I can actually watch droplets of power steering fluid form where the rust is the weakest. I took pictures of the pump and would be willing to post them upon request.)
I can't see paying $575 ($212 + $350 Labor + tax) for a job that I can maybe do my own. It will cost me $100 for the part on the internet and I'm guessing a full Saturday of sweat and aggravation. I just called the shop and the price of $350 for labor doesn't include replacing of the hoses. The tech said, "We don't replace the hoses unless there's something wrong with them. They can last the life of the car."
Questions: Can anyone please, please provide any tips that will help? How long (average) should it take to do a job like this (or how long did it take you to do it)? Any special tools for the pully? What could reasonably be removed to make the job easier? Is it really worth replacing the hoses? Any replies would be appreciated.
Thanks ~Tim
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TD wrote:

http://www.cardone.com/English/Club/Products/Steering/Protech/Install_Instructions/93062720.asp
I am surprised too - I've never had a PS pump rust through.

Regular underbody and engine compartment cleaning can reduce salt corrosion on any car.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.dodge.trucks/browse_frm/thread/7eb89e756544398d/78a2291d4c1bb0be?lnk=st&q ravan%20power%20steering%20pump&rnum=1&hl=en&
They are designed to make leaking seals work a bit longer not plug holes. Barr's Leak works sometimes on radiators but I wouldn't recommend it for power steering pumps.

Don't know of a source for averages. The more experienced you are with tools such as wrenches and sockets and knowlegeable about automotive repair the less time it will take.

You are going to have to look at the job and figure that out. Varies from car to car. The Haynes book should be of help - follow the directions.

Ordinarily I would not replace them. Since the pump resided an environment corrosive enough to rust through the pump body, I would expect some weakening of those hoses too. I would give some thought to replacement.
Any replies would be appreciated.

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snipped-for-privacy@msn.com says...

My rule of thumb is that if I think I can do the job in one day, I allow two days to complete the job. -------------- Alex
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Mitchell ltg says 1.6 hrs, check autozone.com/repairinfo, may have better instructions.

http://www.cardone.com/English/Club/Products/Steering/Protech/Install_Instructions/93062720.asp
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.dodge.trucks/browse_frm/thread/7eb89e756544398d/78a2291d4c1bb0be?lnk=st&q ravan%20power%20steering%20pump&rnum=1&hl=en&
-
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Here's my recommendation.
Drain all power steering fluid from the pump
Clean off the bottom of the pump as best you can with laquer thinner or some other solvent that doesen't leave a residue.
Fashion a metal plate out of an old tin can.
Obtain some long wire ties from the hardware store (these are sold for holding flexible ventilation tubing to vents.)
Liberally apply JB Weld to the bottom of the pump. Press the plate to the JB Weld. Use the ties to secure the plate.
Once it hardens, refill the pump and FLUSH THE SYSTEM with clean PS fluid. (ie: put the return line in a bucket and run the car while pouring new fluid in the system and having an assistant turn the wheels right and left)
You have a very good chance that this repair will hold, and if it does then you probably won't need to go through the hassle of R&R the pump.
Also it's likely the pump rotted from inside out, you probably got water in the PS fluid, and it's only a matter of time before the entire rack itself rots and starts leaking.
Ted
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left)
then
in
Ted...what are you on?? What in the heck are you talking about??

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OK, I know the name JB Weld is like drawing nails across a blackboard with some people but here's my reasoning.
Reread the original post. Here's the operative sentence:
"Last night I finally took a peek under the van and saw the bottom of the pump casing is bubbly with rust. I can actually watch droplets of power steering fluid form where the rust is the weakest."
Look at it. He's got a PS pump with a perforated resivor. That means for some time now his PS fluid has probably been contaminated with rust. He also dumped 3 bottles of stop leak into the PS fluid. So his rack right now is filled with ps fluid, rust, and stop leak crap.
Plus that he's got so much salt water coming up from below as to saturate the bottom of the vehicle to the point that it's rotted out the bottom of the PS pump. Can you imagine for a second what the bottom of the rest of the van looks like? What the rack itself looks like?
To really do this job right would mean tearing out the pump and the rack and all hoses and just throwing everything in the trash and and replacing everything with new stuff.
It is NOT in my opinion very smart to hook up a brand new PS pump to a rack that's full of crappy ps fluid that may or may not be contaminated with salt water, almost certainly has a good load of rust in it, plus 3 bottles of stop leak crap, and pump all that crud into the new pump.
Far better to band-aid the existing pump for a few years and eventually it's either going to finish rotting out completely, or he's going to end up with an inner tie rod that's hashed and will need a new rack anyway, then he can just replace everything then.
If you see a flaw with this reasoning then please explain it. Maybe I'm too pessimistic but I just can't believe with a PS pump that has the bottom rusted out of it, that the inside of his rack is pristine.
He can probably do a Rube Goldberg thing on the PS pump with JB Weld in an hour, without taking anything apart. That will nurse the pump along to allow him to wring the last few miles out of the rack itself, then when the rack blows chunks, he can do everything all at once.
Ted
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A little mickey mouse but it make's sense. The op was wondering about putting new hoses on it. Certainly will save him some money Sounds like the van is on the way out.
Roy
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right
Ted, My opinion. The power steering pump sits over the top of the right axle. which means salt water and what ever else is hitting the bottom of the resorvoir causing the rust and the leak. Me personnally, I can't see that kind of water getting into the pump without causing the fluid to be milky. And if your gonna go thru that much trouble to try to seal a leak, you may as well take the pump off and replace it with a reman one. If the OP takes it off and carries it to Pep boys or Auto zone, Im sure they will press the pulley on and off. They should have the shim that is used to get the correct gap for pulley alignment.
Just a thought!
Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech
Didnt know this was a double post in the dodge group so i will cut and paste what I said in there
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right
Ted, My opinion. The power steering pump sits over the top of the right axle. which means salt water and what ever else is hitting the bottom of the resorvoir causing the rust and the leak. Me personnally, I can't see that kind of water getting into the pump without causing the fluid to be milky. And if your gonna go thru that much trouble to try to seal a leak, you may as well take the pump off and replace it with a reman one. If the OP takes it off and carries it to Pep boys or Auto zone, Im sure they will press the pulley on and off. They should have the shim that is used to get the correct gap for pulley alignment.
Just a thought!
Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech Didnt know this was a double post in the dodge group so I will cut and paste
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Good one Ted.. ... I am certainly with you.. if it holds for the 1st day I also would expect it to outlast the rest of the system at this point !!! If he wants to take it to the dealer and have the car rebuilt around it.... bully for him.. Agree the only way to "fix" it is yank it all and pitch it.. maybe find a U-pull with low miles and good shape..
Hell if the guy wanted to spend $2500 on the car he wouldn't have been here in the first place !!
My $.02 with yours
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If
here
My guess also is that the OP should start frequenting car washes that wash the undercarriage on a regular basis. Or do it himself. It's a nasty job but necessary in some climates.
Ted
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Hopefully not too much of this rust mixed with the fluid. The rack seals are quite sensitive to contamination.

Are the hoses protected with rubber or are they bare metal in certain areas? If you can visually examine any metal parts of the hoses and they appear fine, it might be worth putting off this repair. If they are questionable, you will probably be doing the procedure again in the future.

Usually you need a puller for the pulley. Those can be rented at Autozone. Rack rebuilders I have talked to recommend against Atsco/ARI or Cardone rebuilds, so try to find a higher quality brand. (FWIW, I have an ARI in my car that seems fine so far.) If there is a high pressure cut-off switch in your pump, remember to transplant it into the rebuild because it probably won't come with one.
When you are done, thoroughly flush out the steering system with clean PS fluid. Put the return line into a bucket and keep the reservoir filled while a friend turns the rack from one stop to the other, until the fluid runs clear at the return. Refill it with the manufacturer's recommended PS fluid. Using the wrong PS fluid can damage the rack seals. Unfortunately, since you have already used a stop leak product, you may have to continue to use this product to prevent the rack from leaking. I would solicit advice from others who have used the particular product that you used.
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On the '96 model, removing the pump is easy....getting it out of the vehicle is not. I'd expect the 99 to be similar. In a nutshell, the pump has to come out the tunnel where the exhaust pipe runs to the manifold....so the exhaust has to be taken loose and dropped out of the way. Remember to disconnet the harness to the O2 sensor first. I've never had any luck removing and reusing the pulley, even with the proper tool. Go to the dealer and buy a new pulley....they're about 25 bucks. Most rebuilt pumps will come with an installation tool.
Changing the hoses without removing the rack is next to impossible, so don't unless you have to.
Like many of these jobs, the first one is a PITA, the next one goes much faster.
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it will be easier to do the job with the wiper cowl and wiper motor tray removed and a new pump from the dealer does not come with a pulley but it does come with a coating on the tank so it won't rust in 5 years such as the first one did. make dam sure the pulley/ shaft are in the exact same spot in relation to the pulley on the shaft or the belt will fling off and make sure the wiper tray drain is put bac on. the aftermarket one does not come with a pulley either, at least the ones i have gotten. and make sure the belt tensoner jumps back or it's bad since you are in there. with a tray under the lines and the wheels off the ground move the tires left to right a few times to push out old fluid and replace with new and do the same so it flushes out the rack and pinion
TD wrote:

http://www.cardone.com/English/Club/Products/Steering/Protech/Install_Instructions/93062720.asp
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.dodge.trucks/browse_frm/thread/7eb89e756544398d/78a2291d4c1bb0be?lnk=st&q ravan%20power%20steering%20pump&rnum=1&hl=en&
--------------1FA365448A5DB4924D04D261 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> it will be easier to do the job with the wiper cowl and wiper motor tray removed and a new pump from the dealer does not come with a pulley but it does come with a coating on the tank so it won't rust in 5 years such as the first one did. make dam sure the pulley/ shaft are in the exact same spot in relation to the pulley&nbsp; on the shaft or the belt will fling off and make sure the wiper tray drain is put bac on. <br>the aftermarket one does not come with a pulley either, at least the ones i have gotten. and make sure the belt tensoner jumps back or it's bad since you are in there. <br>with a tray under the lines and the wheels off the ground move the tires left to right a few times to push out old fluid and replace with new and do the same so it flushes out the rack and pinion <p>TD wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE>I'm trying to get self prepared for a Power steering pump replacement <br>on a 1999 Dodge Grand Caravan V6 3.0L.&nbsp; I'm reading that it is a <br>P.I.T.A. job (Pain In The A$$).&nbsp; I'm armed with the Hayes repair <br>manual, a little common sense, basic tools, and an instruction guide <br>from this link: <br><a href="http://www.cardone.com/English/Club/Products/Steering/Protech/Install_Instructions/93062720.asp ">http://www.cardone.com/English/Club/Products/Steering/Protech/Install_Instructions/93062720.asp </a> <p>I've also been scanning the newsgroups and I'm surprised that there <br>aren't more posts on this considering the hole rusted through in 6 <br>only years of use.&nbsp; I guess it was no match for the WI salt.&nbsp; I found a <br>post that hits it dead on, but it lacks information and the poster <br>doesn't go into detail about installing.&nbsp; He mainly says how hard the <br>pump was to get off.&nbsp; See it at this link: <br><a href="http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.dodge.trucks/browse_frm/thread/7eb89e756544398d/78a2291d4c1bb0be?lnk=st&q ravan%20power%20steering%20pump&rnum=1&hl=en&">http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.dodge.trucks/browse_frm/thread/7eb89e756544398d/78a2291d4c1bb0be?lnk=st&amp ;qravan%20power%20steering%20pump&amp;rnum=1&amp;hl=en&amp;</a> <p>(History:&nbsp; I discovered the leak for about 4 weeks ago.&nbsp; It leaves <br>about a 12" spot of fluid every 10 hour sitting.&nbsp; Out of desperation, <br>I tried one of those stop leak juices.&nbsp; In fact 3 full bottles.&nbsp; I've <br>never used any type of "stop leak" remedy before because I feel <br>they just don't work.&nbsp; Well... as expected, it didn't.&nbsp; Last night <br>I finally took a peek under the van and saw the bottom of the pump <br>casing is bubbly with rust.&nbsp; I can actually watch droplets of power <br>steering fluid form where the rust is the weakest.&nbsp; I took pictures of <br>the pump and would be willing to post them upon request.) <p>I can't see paying $575 ($212 + $350 Labor + tax) for a job that I <br>can maybe do my own.&nbsp; It will cost me $100 for the part on the internet <br>and I'm guessing a full Saturday of sweat and aggravation.&nbsp; I just <br>called the shop and the price of $350 for labor doesn't include <br>replacing of the hoses.&nbsp; The tech said, "We don't replace the hoses <br>unless there's something wrong with them.&nbsp; They can last the life of <br>the car." <p>Questions:&nbsp; Can anyone please, please provide any tips that will help? <br>How long (average) should it take to do a job like this (or how long <br>did it take you to do it)?&nbsp; Any special tools for the pully?&nbsp; What <br>could reasonably be removed to make the job easier?&nbsp; Is it really worth <br>replacing the hoses?&nbsp; Any replies would be appreciated. <p>Thanks <br>~Tim</blockquote> </html>
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