Overheating problem solved - THANKS EVERYONE!!!

THANKS EVERYONE...for helping me solve the overheating problem on my 96 Ford Taurus.
The user "Backyard Mechanic" posted a link to somebody elses web site that
had pics of their problem and it really sent me off in the right direction. I won't do a whole web site, but I did do a simple little page that I'll leave it up for a week or so if anyone wants to see how badly the impellers were damaged inside the water pump. You can see it at: http://home.sc.rr.com/estaab/water_pump.htm
Thanks again,
Phil
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Good pics.. but arent they reversed? Quote: The coolant/antifreeze had become so corrosive at some point (even with coolant flushes and refills)
Unquote
Got any idea what's in a 'coolant flush'?
besides Money for the people that do it?
I have never done a coolant flush to any of my cars and I am not the best at preventive maintenance... And I've never had a corrosion problem either.
But then, I've never had a car that had that yellow antifreeze in it
BTW... what good do you think an "Engine Flush" would do?... You know the ones that oil-change places are advertising..
Think about it. It 'clears out' oil passage deposits 'real fast'. Where do those deposits go?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Unhhh two more things:
First, I wasnt criticizing YOU, Phil, in any way.
Second, I'm wondering about the particular symptom here.. that is of the impeller 'sacrificing' itself.
Here's an 'official view' from:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3828/is_200408/ai_n9453107 #continue
quote That means that as the coolant passes through the pump, bubbles are produced, which then collapse with explosive force, pockmarking the internal parts of the pump. That pockmarking is erosion, the marks being exposed, unprotected metal. If the inhibitors work quickly, the damage stops after minor corrosion. If they work slowly (as with organic acid inhibitors), the pockmarked areas corrode for a longer period. unquote
BUT Does any know if the pump seal composite was changed for this series? The old ones had a carbon/brass seal, if I recall. Changing one of those two surfaces would result in either galvanic (maybe) or electrostatic (probable, from the looks of it) eddy currents through the shaft. Bet that was the problem rather than the coolant itself.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Back again... Found another site, which pretty much says whatever we use... we're pretty much DOOMED!
http://www.cycoactive.com/Urabus/urabus_cooling2.html
Note the bottom article; reading between the lines, it tells us that using an aluminum protection coolant in an all-iron engine like the Vulcan causes problems.
Not only that...using distilled water also can cause damage, due to ph imbalance.
Screw it.. gonna just keep on doing what I'm doing.


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Thanks Mechanic,
First, I never felt that you ever criticized me...I apologize if my response gave you that impression. Second, Ford's resolution to the problem as outlined in a TSB was to change the coolant path by adding a "coolant bypass" system. Their $135 kit (plus labor to install it) included a couple 3/4" tee connectors, a couple pieces of 3/4" hose, some hose clamps, and a restrictor. In simplest of terms they cut the two heater hoses (going into and out of the heater core), installed the tees, and added another piece of hose between them. This apparently gives an second path for the coolant to flow in addition to the path through the heater core. How this was going to solve the problem of coolant turning brown and engine overheating, I don't know.
The conspiracy theorist side of me thinks that this was done to cover up the fact that they had some really bad water pumps (not made to specs or, more than likely, the specs were wrong to begin with (wrong material). This is what caused the impellers to erode/corrode, thus turning the coolant brown and causing the overheating because there wasn't enough impeller left to move the coolant.
Anywho...thanks again for all your input,
Phil
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I would suggest you install the restrictor in the degas line, if nothing else. You can make one out of a short length of bolt with a 1/8" hole drilled axially through it.
By the way, the redesigned impeller looks like this:
http://home.tir.com/~artemus/Impeller/MVC-001SA.JPG

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Phil Nospam wrote:

Not corrosion, Phil.
It's from a poor choice of impeller material for the shape & design of the impeller design and the housing. The impeller was cavitating in the coolant mixture, actually boiling off the impeller fins in low pressure pockets and taking a tiny microscopic bit of material with it each time a bubble boiled off. This could, and probably did happen at temperatures much lower than the 212 degree sea-level boiling point.
If it was corrosion, the failure would have been around the hub equally with the blades.
Rob
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Thanks Rob,
I'm sure there is a technological difference between corrosion and erosion, but you obviously understood what I meant. Maybe it's a combination of both in this instance...the corrosion being the chemical reaction that caused the impeller material to weaken/disintegrate and the cavitation/turbulence that happens more extensively at the edge of the fins of the impeller causing it to erode more quickly there. There was evidence of erosion/corrosion on what remained of the impeller as it was significantly thinner than a new one.
I'm not an engineer, although I play one on TV. ;-)
Phil
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
How on earth could you drive it even around the block without it overheating and burning up the engine? Jeez it looks like it wouldn't pump at all!

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@microsoft.com says...

I once drove an 85 Ford 3.8 70 miles with a dry radiator (not on purpose)
It ran very hot but not pegged to the max. I suspect the mobil one oil helped out here quite a bit as well as perhaps a loose engine after 200,000 miles of use. Drove the car another few years after that
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.