Percentage foreign input in a car?

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Seeing a related thread reminds me of a question:
I've read so many announcements about GMC farming out engineering to India, and now manufacturing to China, that I just wouldn't buy a GM
car... But how does one choose a vehicle with the maximum possible domestic content? It seems Ford is the leader there right now, which is why we have two Fords.. but I base this mostly on negative information (no outsourcing announcements in the engineering journals I read).
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You have a rude awakening coming your way if you believe Ford is any different. Why do you thing you need both standard and metric tools to effectively work on today's Ford??? On working on 90 -2001 Taurus, I have found part made in Mexico, Spain, Portugal, Germany, England, Italy, China, Taiwan, and Canada.. just to name a few.. ( Let me make it clear though, not all countries were found in one car..)

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Well, yes - of course, there are parts from all over in a Ford, just like everyone else. What I meant to ask is (I guess) when I choose my next new car, who do I choose given that I want the largest possible fraction of my dollars to go to American auto workers? For instance, the Focus hatchback is made in Mexico, so the sedan is probably a "better buy" given the above criterion.
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That is a question that is tough to answer.. You have to do your research on the content of the car. I decide what class of car I would like and how much I plan to spend, and start from that point.

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Lewin A.R.W. Edwards wrote:

Right. Those plants take a lot of peope to keep running and then there's the workers on top of that. That's the largest single cash outlay for them, so your best bet to support the U.S. economy (and it is a REAL way to support those thousands of families, which in turn spend money and so on) is to buy something made at a U.S. plant.
Mexico is a joke. Half of those workers don't have electricity 24 hours a day and their local government doesn't really care anymore than our corporations do. Go down there sometime. Really. It's so apalling how their workers live(as if it is a "fair wage" - my ass it is) that you'll never buy a Mexican-plant made car.
We could pay them $10 or $20 an hour and still save money - give them enough money to live properly - but no - $3 an hour because we can.
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So let's not give the workers any money. Good idea. We don't pay them enough, so let's not let them work at all!
Jeff
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If Mexico can build a car cheaper than the US, why no go to Mexico? Where do you think most of the components in your computer are made? If you think the US, think again. Try Asia. Even white collar jobs are moving overseas. And I say, good. If I can do a job cheaper than the people in China, I should get the job. And it should go both ways.
Jeff
Jeff
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The fallacy of that argument is, if all we do is go for the cheapest source, at some point in time, soon or later, nothing will be made in the USA. At that point where will the ex-workers get money to buy those cheap goods manufactured oversea..? And if for some "bizarre" reason those countries decide not send the goods, what do we, thousands away, do about..? On the second point about computers, with so much being made overseas, even for the military and their weapons systems, where is the great security that our politicians talk about daily. Once you give away the family secret, you have nothing left..!

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For a good laugh on our Trade Pact with other Nations: go to http://www.danzigercartoons.com / select Nov. 11, 2003 - Steel Tariffs. see also Nov. 7, 2000 Walmart Jobs.. There are many more..take your pick..

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By that time, the USA will have no infrastructure, and nobody trained to create one. We'll have books that tell us what to do, but nobody with practical experience to actually do it.
How long do you think it would take to outfit a desert island with an industrial revolution? You have to make the tools to make the tools to make the tools that make the tools you need to get started.

There's a limit to this, though. Our capital is only useful as long as other people value it.
Imagine this scenario: The USA has no local infrastructure for hitech left; we only have primary industry (farming and mineral extraction), with *all* processing taking place overseas. [Australia is somewhat in this situation]. Further imagine that we do something unpopular. For instance, imagine that we invade some random country against the express wishes of the UN. The UN votes to put Iraq-style sanctions on the USA. All our money overseas is forfeited to foreign governments. All our money in the USA is unspendable beyond our borders. It becomes illegal for anyone overseas to work on US programming projects.
What happens then? Do we petulantly nuke every second city in Europe to force them to sell stuff to us? Invade China or India and take over some real engineers and workers? Very 1984.
That's the worst-case end result of an uncontrolled globalized economy WHEN COUPLED with a lack of worldwide mandated quality-of-life minima. If you want to globalize, you need to level the playing field - which means you have to ban ten-year-old coal miners EVERYWHERE, not just here in the USA.

Intel is outsourcing more and more of its engineering every year. Microsoft, too. It's in the foreseeable future that all of our software and other IP companies will consist of *nothing* but marketing personnel and investors. Already, semiconductor manufacturers really don't have a credible support infrastructure in the US. They are geared up to handle projects that are *financed* by US companies, but *carried out* in China.
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Bullshit. People still buy houses, need hosptials, schools, etc. There are more and more people in the US every year. Our ability to build infrastructure has increased in recent years, not decreased.

We have them. We are using them in Iraq.

True. And our capital is valued very highly.

Then those jobs come back to the US.

Perhaps we could start by training more sciencetists and engineers. And use workers from Mexico.

I agree. And the quality of life tends to do up as the workforce gets more money. For example, countries like Korea and India are outsourcing some of their jobs to poorer countries.

No, they're not. They are doing the jobs in house. It is just the inhouse is global today. Like the economy.

Actually, I believe memory chips and CPUs are still made in the US. IBM, Motorola and Intel all make the chips in the US.
Jeff
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There are many fine products of all kinds produced in this country, as good or better than any imports. If you want good paying jobs you must to buy the products of those workers. Just ten years ago US Steel was the number one employer in Pennsylvania, Bethlehem Steel was number two. Today Bethlehem Steel is no more and WalMart is the states largest employer. If you want you wages to drop to those of foreign workers or worse have the company you work for move its manufacturing off shore to other countries go out of business, then you need to support your own country first. If the Foreign manufactures, assembling their products in the US of low cost imported parts, put domestic companies out of business, do you really think they will still assemble their products in the US when they can so at for one tenth the cost in China? There is a simply way to help protect the jobs in the US for you children and grandchildren. When you are buying a produce look for those made in in the US. If the person selling does not have a product made in in the US that you want, inform them you only buy products made in the US and leave their establishment.. Naturally one can not always find products made in the US in some stores, but if you take the time you will soon find those stores that carry American made products. I do that all the items. We Americans should be as smart as the Japanese, they buy products produced in their own country when ever possible. If we did that with just half of the things we buy our economy would grow by leaps and bounds. As long as American are willing to buy 40 BILLION dollars, in imports as we are doing, eventually the only job skills your kids will need it how to say 'Do you want fries with that?' or 'Welcome to WalMart.'
Jeff wrote:

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Because my children are going to grow up in America, and I want them to have other career choices than foodservice and marketing.

Yes, I know, since I'm a white-collar worker in the USA, probably about to be laid off, and I'm going to be competing with Indian and Chinese workers who are paid $10,000/year. Why is this a good thing? Fortunately, I have a few rare skills, and a secondary career as an author (which I'm obviously trying to grow!).

The problem with that philosophy is that it is based on either ignorance, or the following assumptions (among others):
1. People are interchangeable factors of production, like blocks of steel or pounds of coal. Their quality of life - or their ability to live - is not important. 2. Trade agreements will always exist, on terms at least as favorable to us as they are now. 3. There will always be new fields to make profits.
The reason overseas labor is cheaper is ultimately because there are fewer social services overseas. Police, fire, safety services, the requirement for children to attend school, the right to breathe reasonably clean air and drink reasonably clean water, the right not to have random nuclear and chemical waste dumped in your back yard, etc etc - all of these quality of life issues ultimately make labor more expensive due to direct administrative costs and indirect taxation costs.
Notice that jobs are not leaving the USA and going to affluent places like Denmark, Switzerland, etc. They are going to places with an extremely low average standard of living, and practically nonexistent (or unenforced) occupational health and safety regulations.
In short, the "buy it where it's cheap" system is really only fully sustainable if you are committed to eventually reducing the entire human race - except for a few exceedingly wealthy plutocrats - to a uniformly miserable quality of existence.
Billions of pages have been written on this topic, perhaps you would find it enlightening to study some of them.
-- -- Lewin A.R.W. Edwards (http://www.zws.com /) Learn how to develop high-end embedded systems on a tight budget! (Amazon.com product link shortened)
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DOn't forget about education, science, engineering and medical care. There will be a lot of old people here.

Try $3,000 to $4,000.

Because the company that hires them pays less for whatever you do. Good for the company.

Who has a better quality of life? A dishwasher in India with a college degree and the same ability to program computers as a someone in Washington or the same person working for Microsoft for about $250/month (and the cost of living in India is a lot less than in the US, so this is really a lot of money).

And that $250/month that the India computer programmer gets ends up in the community. She pays taxes, buys clothes, housing, etc.

And as those areas get more affluent, the occupational health and safety regulations tend to get better enforced.

Or, alternatively, bringing up the entire human race to a higher standard.

I have.
Jeff

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Jeff wrote:

Correct up to here, then you fail to see that all it really does is bring us down to their level.
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wrote in message

Really? Then why is the standard of living rise in Korea, India and Poland as well as many other countries?
Less money going into a country doesn't help.
Jeff
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If you will look at the content label on the window, you will find that there is no Ford that has a '1' as the first number of the VIN, that has less than 75% American made parts. Most are 80% to 98% American parts. Even those with a '2' made in Canada, have 80% American parts. Those with a '3' made in Mexico have 70% American parts. Those vehicles assemble in the US by foreign manufactures that have a '4' have at least 70% American parts. Most have a '5' which means they are assembled in the US of less than 45% American parts.
mike hunt
"V.B. Mercon" wrote:

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Lewin A.R.W. Edwards opined in

That's fine for individuals to do.. and I WISH there were SOME way to keep more jobs in the USA.. BUT efforts to block export of most jobs really ARE counterproductive..
Some of it, you can regard as foreign aid.
The real key is for the US to keep developing technology that reduces the need for labor.. this is ALSO expoted and increases the global standard of living.. thus it SOMEWHAT cycles back.
There is NO easy answer to this.
In the case of IT, local support for systems integration and training cannot be farmed out.
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Backyard Mechanic wrote:

With our stagnating economy and rising unemployment rates, what about *domestic* aid? It's a lot harder and costlier to pick people out of the gutter like we did after the Great Depression than to keep them afloat until the hard times are over.
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