I have looked at the schematic, it is correct. What makes you think it is not? The circuit you need is and has been the same for all model years. That is the same circuit used on Fords EEC 4 system across all model lines. The only exceptions would be vehicles that have constant control modules. Your car does not have a constant control module.
How do they not match the schematic? What makes you think this?
Do you have automatic temperature control?
I don't see what you are up against because if you look at any EEC4 schematic for the fuel pump relay and EEC relay they are the same and work the same. The only thing that changed over the years is the color of the wires.
Again that does not matter.
Again, you have a circuit that you say you can jumper ( yellow wire to orange wire ) and hear the pump and smell ( I do not see how this is possible, it's a sealed system ) gas.
You say you can provide power and ground to a relay on the primary side and make an ohm measurement on the secondary side and confirm an audible click from the relay.
You say you can install the power supply to the primary side of the relay and with out it's ground path installed read 12 volts on the ground terminal, yet when you make a ground the relay not work? The same relay you made jumper for and the relay worked?
There are only a very few explanations for this.
They are not on there? The wiring diagrams that I am using show two relays only. Can you show me wiring diagrams for the others? There is one more in the housing, an extra one on the side of the housing and one in the kick panel. Do you have a wiring diagram that shows those? If so, I would really appreciate a copy of it. I would like to see the relationship between the fuel pump relay and the relay in the kick panel that is getting clicked by it when I ground the fuel pump relay. I know you may disagree
1000% with me, but I would just like to see the relationship.Thanks and take care, Sharon
I know that you believe there is no point to my arguing this, but that relay never clicked until I put the ground on the connector for the tan lt/grn wire. It was not clicking at all before. Somehow, someway, there is a connection. I did not turn anything else on. I did not touch any other controls. I only put the ground alligator clip on the tan/lt grn wire connector for the fuel pump relay and for the first and only time since we have started this whole procedure, I got a click on that relay inside the car. In fact, that is the first relay click I have gotten on any relay. That did not happen before. So, something 'tuned on' by my grounding that connector that has not turned on during this whole process. I, of course, wonder what circuit got completed that had not been completed in the past. It may be a clue to what is happening overall. Never mind Thomas. Thank you for your help. I will not frustrate you anymore. I appreciate what you have tried to do. And when I find out what is wrong, I will most certainly let this newsgroup know for future reference.
Take Care, Sharon
The other relays in the housing are not shown on the schematics because they are not part of the engine controls. Just because they are mounted in that location does not mean they are part of the working circuit. When you turn the key to run you power up the entire car's electrical system. Anything that has a relay associated with it will "click" if that system is on. You can not see a relationship, because there is not one. Do not believe me? You can order the EVTM for your car from this site
I don't care about the other relay, it is not part of the engine controls. It could be part of the ATC system if you have ATC. It could be part of automatic headlamp circuit, if you have auto headlamps. It's not part of the engine controls, so I don't care.
I do want to know why that relay you made work with jumper wires, a power wire that you said you made, a ground wire that you said you made will work that relay. You say you put the OHM meter to it and you say you have 1 OHM on the secondary side when you energize the relay and you hear it click? Yet when you install the relay to the car, say you have 12 volts to it, say you have 12 volts through it, you make a ground, and you say it does not work? At this point there is 0 difference from your made up wires to the one on the car. If it works whit jumper wires, it will work with the cars harness. Don't you see the conflict here?
If it's not part of the circuit, it will not be on the schematic. If it is, and there is no room to show it, it will show the point where the circuit starts and have a foot note "like goes to see A page 15-1" You do not see that in your schematic, it's not there.
Think it's part of the circuit? Test it with your OHM meter.
Stan's advise. I copied the full post.
The terminal that goes to the red wire hook to positive 12 volts.
The terminal thet goes to the tan/lt green wire hook to negitive 12 volts.
It should make a click when you do this.
The other two terminals should now read near 0 ohm's from one terminal to the other on your ohm's meter if the relay is good.
Stan
Your reply to his post. Again I copied the full post.
Got the click and the other two terminals read 1 ohm when set on the RX1K setting. Relay is good. Now I have to check out the socket that holds them (again). Take Care, Sharon
What I also want to know is how can you have a 1 OHM reading with a meter set for RX1K. One OHM would barely move the needle if at all when the meter is set to read in the 1000's of ohms..
See above.
You have made posts saying you can get the engine to trun over, but will not start. You made it clear you know the meaning of the word "crank".
If you got the fuel pump to run, you have a completed circuit.
Question, how did you attach a ground at the fuel pump?
What do you think you were testing?
You see voltage on a ground wire, you have no ground. OHM's law.
You see 0 volts on a ground wire? You have ground. OHM's law.
You see voltage on it. OHM's law.
Circuit does not work. OHM's law.
Thomas, it did click, but only when I tested it directly to the battery. Red wire connector of the relay to the positive side, tan lt/grn wire connector to the negative. It clicked. That was how Stan told me to do it and that is how I did it. I have never gotten the click when it is connected to it's actual wiring. So, in it's current position, it is NOT clicking and never has. Not even when I forced the grounding connector to ground. Nothing I have done, with that relay, has enabled it to click other than directly wiring it to the battery. Yes, the relay works, but no it does not work in it's own wiring. And yes, the connectors are tight and the wiring is good.
I will ask just once more. Is there a fail safe device, other than the inertia switch, that might cause the relay to shut down as soon as it powers up? Bad connection at ECM, bad ground at fuel pump, bad ground at battery, spark delay valve, fuel pressure regulator, distributor check valve, neutral safety switch, a bad fuse, a bad fusable link, ignition switch??? Would a bad fuel pump cause it to not engage properly?
I am going to start with the grounding wires to check things out. I have a list of things to check over time. I do not want to frustrate you anymore than you are already frustrated Thomas. It is not worth it. It has been way too stressful for me and I am sure for you too. If you think of something obvious from my list above, great. If not, let it go.
Take Care, Sharon
How is that possible? I walked you through tests that proved the relay works on the car. Your posts also show the relay to work on the car. It looks like you are missing something. How is the 12 volts from the battery different from the
12 volts from the cars harness? How is the ground on the battery different from the ground I had you make on the car different? It is not. That leaves very few explanations, I'm not going to go into them. I think you know what they are.Again no.
A bad battery ground can cause the problem, why do you think I was asking questions about the battery cables?
??????no such device.
Has only to do with the fluid side of the fuel system. No electrical involvement.
No such device.
Only has to do with the starter motor, it works according to your posts.
, a bad fuse, a bad fusable link, ignition switch???
You have power where you should, so no you do not have an open circuit protection.
Look at the schematic, where does the secondary circuit even come close to being involved with the primary? Follow the lines.
You do not have the correct tools to check the grounds. You also do not have the information of what to look for.
Is there a way to test the EEC out of the car? At a Ford dealership?
I disagree with you on the grounds. I, at the very least, have my eyes to see if there is a sliced or broken ground wire coming from the pump. I can follow that line down. I did buy a test light, but I am sure you would consider it inadequate because I was inexpensive.
Thanks and take care, Sharon
It may be working, I have no idea. But I can tell you that the relay is not clicking, and the fuel pump is not running, and the connections are tight and in the right place. I have checked both over and over again. You have told me that if it is working, I will hear a clicking noise. I do not. I know that you think that I am screwing up on the wiring or that the connections are not tight, but they are, honestly. So, you ask, how is it possible, I don't know what is causing it, but it is factual.
Take Care, Sharon
Thank you Stan, that answers what that relay is for, but it does not answer why it is now clicking when I ground the fuel pump relay, when it was not clicking before. I think that when I force ground the fuel pump relay, a circuit is being, at least partially, completed that had not been completed before with the tan lt/grn wire attached.
I knew about greasing the speedometer cable, but just hadn't done it. I was just bringing that up because I may have been misinterpreting a symptom. Thanks. Sharon
Does that electrical troubleshooting manual have wiring diagrams? This configuration is right on the money. It shows all of my components where they were located. Thanks. Sharon
"Stan J." > Component location views I have saved these on my computer Stan. If you had them up there for my benefit only, you can remove them if you would like. Thanks again, Sharon
Your speedometer cable needs lubricant. You can get it at any ford dealer the part number is E6TZ-19581-A Stan
Component location views This is from the 1989 electrical & vacuun trouble shooting manual.
It all depends on what is wrong with the processor.
The speedometer is driven off the transmission via cable. No relationship, no voltage spike.
I think you know the answer.
Really? How do you test a ground then? Would you use a analog meter like yours or a digital? What would you look for in the way of a reading? Would you be looking at volts or resistance and what scale? Would you test the ground with the circuit powered up or not powered up?
The cost of a test lamp makes no difference. I'm not shallow.
Put a volt meter on the secondary side see if the switch closes. Use your test lamp.
I'm no electrical guru Sharon, but I've owned a lot of old cars. When all the components check out as good, replace the wiring. I had a charging problem on a 79 Mustang where everything checked out, including the wiring. Replacing all the wiring in the circuit cured the problem. On older cars wiring can be broken inside the insulation, it can get corroded and set up high resistance, and it can develp intermittent grounds. When all the relays etc. are working properly, the only thing left is the wires. Get an assortment of wire sizes and colors and make a diagram as you go showing what color goes to what. (If you own the car long enough, you'll need the diagram again.) And as far as finding and replacing the one wire with a problem goes- they're all the same age. Might as well replace them all while you're there. If you have to splice to reuse connectors, solder and tape then shrinkwrap the splices. Solder won't come apart the way other connections will.
Wishing you luck with this, max-income
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