Focus Zetec oil & cutting out problem, 1.6 V Reg

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Gotta colleague who has above car and it was only firing on 3 cylinders. Local garage did new ignition coil and HT leads. Since then she has been aware of vibration noise and it has cut out a few
times. Returned to garage who did a test drive, could eventually hear noise and the car did cut out. Cuts out when warm, not just from cold. Garage have spent 1.5 hours today trying to isolate vibration noise - it is plasticky and seems to be related to revs. He has tie-wrapped a few possible bits but still can't find it. Says that it is nothing dangerous.
BUT the guy says that the oiled is black and overfilled - turns out she got a "litre of oil for a modern engine" and poured it all in a few months ago. She has owned the car for 8 months and not sure when it was last serviced. Methinks that his quoted price for an oil./filter change of 49 is a bit steep - but it needs Ford Zetec oil, 5 - 40w apparently. (local Ford dealers do it for 45).
So . . . I think that it needs an oil change anyway as it has only been used for local journeys. Any ideas tho on what could be causing the cutting out problem please? Garage guy suggested that cutting out could be caused by poor oil flow when cold????? Never heard of that myself.
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[snip]

It needs to have 5w-30 oil. I pay 12 for fords own brand (Formula E) although some dealers charge up to 20 for it. It will need an oil filter too.... about 6 for a genuine Ford one (recommended).

What brand of coil and leads were fitted? They need to be genuine Motorcraft items. Its possible that the fuel pump is playing up. You can check for error codes on the EEC by holding the trip button down while turning the key to position 2 (the one before the start position)
You then have a display on the digital dash. Press the trip button to cycle through various figures until you see "DTC" press again to display the codes. "9202" and "9204" are the codes relating to fuel pump failure.
--
Paul Giverin

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I reckon you've got sticking valves due to using the wrong oil.
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Nah, that was only with the early Zetec E's with the hydraulic lifters. This is a Zetec SE with solid lifters.
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Paul Giverin

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writes

The Zetec-E had solid lifters. The Zetec had hydraulic.
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No, the original Silvertop Zetec E (1.6, 1.8, 2.0 Escort, Mk1 Mondeo) had hydraulic lifters. The later Blacktop Zetec E (1.8 & 2.0 Mk2 Mondeo, Focus) had solid lifters.
I know what you are saying. Some folks only refer to the Blacktop as the Zetec E but if you look at the Ford TIS CD, it refers to the earlier Silvertop as a Zetec E also.
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writes

The Zetec-E was introduced post 97, spotted with "16v Zetec" in the rocker cover, and the inlet pipe going straight to the throttle body. This had a silver top.
The Zetec prior to that with the hydraulic lifters had "DOHC 16v" cast into the rocker cover, and the inlet manifold/throttle body consisting of a big "EFi" cast block, with an inlet chamber running from the nearside front of the bay, along to the middle then up the centre of the rocker cover.
Black top Es weren't found in Escorts, just Mk2 Mondeos and Foci.
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But still referred to as the Zetec E by Ford.
Also what Ford chose to put on the rocker cover is misleading. For example, the 1.6 Focus was launched with the Zetec SE engine but they put Zetec S on the rocker cover. They later started putting Zetec SE on the (new black) rocker cover at the time when they made a couple of external changes to the engine. Some people thought that early 1.6's had a "S" and later ones had an "SE" when if fact it was launched with the SE back in 1998.

I didn't actually say they were.
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writes

lifters.
had
the
rocker
into
big
of
Yes, what ford put on the rocker cover is misleading, my 97 escort has 16v Zetec on the rocker cover, but looking at the engine code & manufacture date (which is printed on the cambelt cover IIRC), it is still the older series head that suffers from sticky valves (which it does!). The car was registered aug 1997, yet the build date of the engine was may 1995.
Dave
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Up until the black tops, what was on the rocker cover was gospel~ish. There were a few 16v Zetec'd rocker covers but with the old style TB/inlet manifold. DOHC 16v rocker covers had the big EFi cast TB/inlet manifold, 16v Zetec's had the black pipe straight into the TB. The latter being the Zetec-E (with solid lifters, introduced post 97) and the former being just a Zetec (with hydraulic, used post 92, pre 97.).
In short, pre 97 Zetec's weren't Zetec-E's, post 97 were.

Apologies, wasn't suggesting you did...was just clarifying things for those who're wondering WTF we're on about.
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Sandy Nuts wrote:

...but was never fitted to a Focus.
Early Zetec-E's (as fitted to Escorts et al) originally used hydraulic lifters. All Focus petrol engines have solid lifters. (Well, this side of the pond at least).
Chris
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writes

Early mk1's had hydrolic lifters and prone to sticky valves,known as zetec engines Early mk2's had the same zetec engine then 97'ish got changed to the zetec-e=solid lifters and no more sticking valves, V or W-plate black top introduced with the duratech engine and solid lifters. Go by what it says on the cam cover as a referance.
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writes

Yeah that's basically right. Although the Duratec petrol engines weren't introduced to the Mondeo until Mk3 model. Only the 2.5L V6 was a Duratec. Up until Mk3, they were black top Zetec's.
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The silver top Zetec was fitted to Escorts / Mk1 Mondeos from 1992 - 1997ish. The Zetec-E was fitted to post 97 Escorts, Foci and Mk2 Mondeos.
See my post to Paul.
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On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 20:21:03 GMT, Sandy Nuts wrote:

Apart from a very small number of early Foci that got fitted with Escort engines, every Focus has shimmed solid bucket followers. This comes up regularly on the owners group - sticking cam followers due to incorrect oil grade is not an issue for the Focus.
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I think this is a myth though. I've heard it before but probably from the same source. There's no way that Ford were going to launch their new flagship car with the old, under powered 1.6 that the Escort and Mondeo had, especially as it had already been superseded in the Mondeo by the Blacktop engines.
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Paul Giverin

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On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:26:20 -0000, Sod the Builder wrote:

Has he wrapped about six inch of duct tape round the boot striker pin? That's a favorite spot for a buzzy noise on these.

Which is a rip off. The oil is Formula-E 5w30 (not 5w40) and a dealer should be charging 12-14 for it. Motorcraft filters are 8.75 for the diesel one I picked up today, petrols will be similar. For a 12,500 change interval get something to ACEA A3/B3 rather than A1/B1 (viscosity 5w30).
When it cuts out do you get ----- on the odo, and the speedo suddly falling to zero? There is a problem with the speed sensor on these and that can cause sudden loss of spark if the ECU gets confused. The VSS goes in the gearbox and is a pig to get out if the retaining pin has rusted.
Have a look on www.ffoc.co.uk

Bollocks. Find a garage who knows what he's talking about, the oil is like water in these cars even when cold.
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noise
have
but
got
ago.
dealers
cutting
by
Right, firstly: Does it cut out when drving, or just fail to maintain an idle when coming to a halt. Both have different causes.
a) Change the oil and filter with the correct 5w-30 Formula E or equivilent brand- it must be 5w-30 specifically for the Zetec E / SE engines. Although the 1.6 and later Blacktops dont suffer sticking valves, the correct oil is still essential if you are not to have (in extreme cases) exploding oil filters and the like. Instruct owner in the use of the dipstick and that she must use the correct oil to top up, and that if she is doing only town / short trip work to have the oil changed every 6 months.
b) Ensure the plugs and leads are proper motorcraft items (especially the leads) and that the coil pack is clean from muck / grease / oil etc.
c) Ensure the TSB note has been carried out on the CHT sensor and wiring harness. If the car shows any symptoms of wacky instruments / jittery speedo etc this is the cause, but it may not. Early 1.6's had issues with the ECU being spiked with HT from the plug leads into the CHT wiring. The wiring should also be positioned away from the HT leads as is possible.
d) If the car only generally stalls when coming to a halt then its more likely a stuck or gummed up ISCV probably caused by dirty oil fumes from the over filled and irregularly changed sump oil. Cleaning the ISCV and throttle body / pvc hoses may effect a cure, otherwise its time for a new ISCV.
e) If all the above checks out and the symptoms only appear when the fuel tank is 1/2 or less full, then go straight to the fuel pump, again a superseeded unit is available to replace the fault prone earlier ones. Part of the exhaust and tank needs dropping to do the work.
Hope this helps to begin with.
Tim..
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=Tim, Good points but I don't think an oil change every 6 months is enough when you are driving short trips and mostly stop and go. In that sort of driving gas (Petrol) leaks into the oil and there is also a lot of condensation. I would change at least every 3 months. Also the recommendation for my Daughters 2003 WX5? (not sure about that,but 5 door wagon) is 5w20. I live in Canada. Hot in summer, collllld in winter. Geoff.
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On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 13:18:06 -0500, GeoffP wrote:

The 5W20 is mainly to meet the CAFE numbers - 5W30 is the correct oil. Assuming a good quality oil is used then 6000 miles/6 months is no problem at all.
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